SL600 - words of wisdom welcome

[moakesr]

It's not that scary really, the ADS was faulty on my car, and I repaired it

If you are prepared to read, scrounge on ebay, have patience with a spanner and have good diagnostic skills then ADS isn't that bad.

The real fears are ECU and main ADS valve, everything else is not too bad, but the valve is made of unobtainium and costs thousands from a dealer, mind you one went for £80 on ebay a couple of weeks back The ECU was superceded, and if you have to fit the later type, then you need wiring loom adapters and different switches, so that comes a bit keen too.

Not sure about the 600, but my 500 will get converted to conventional suspension when the repair bills exceed my tolerance levels, but ask anyone with an ADS or ABC equipped car, when the system works, you can't beat how it feels and handles round the corners.

Richard

Speaking of the ADS, does anyone know what the real fears with this system are? What generally goes wrong and why is it so expensive (or perceived to be) to repair? Is it expensive parts or high labour costs?

Will

 

[television]

It's not that scary really, the ADS was faulty on my car, and I repaired it

If you are prepared to read, scrounge on ebay, have patience with a spanner and have good diagnostic skills then ADS isn't that bad.

The real fears are ECU and main ADS valve, everything else is not too bad, but the valve is made of unobtainium and costs thousands from a dealer, mind you one went for £80 on ebay a couple of weeks back The ECU was superceded, and if you have to fit the later type, then you need wiring loom adapters and different switches, so that comes a bit keen too.

Not sure about the 600, but my 500 will get converted to conventional suspension when the repair bills exceed my tolerance levels, but ask anyone with an ADS or ABC equipped car, when the system works, you can't beat how it feels and handles round the corners.

Richard

I can remember you doing that and how you just got stuck in and fixed it, full credit to you on that. I will have to start calling you superman

regards

 

[Will]

Does the ADS system operate with hydraulic struts, accumulators and valves to control the ride height? Does it adjust the damping rate in some way or is it just to control the ride height mainly?

FWIW, I've been working on one of my 2.5-16s today (with self-levelling rear suspension), replaced both rear accumulators, and one of the struts - probably an expensive job at a dealers, but if you're prepared for a bit of DIY or know a good specialist it's not that bad The Evolution 2.5-16s have fully adjustable ride height, high/medium/low, with front and rear self-levelling.

I can imagine the ECU being expensive (as Richard mentioned), possibly the 'valve' (depending on what it is), but are any of the other components shared with other MB models - the accumulators and other SLS parts on the 190 seem to be.

Maybe a side-line for Malcolm with the ECUs, or BBA reman possibly? I wonder how they fail?

Many thanks to forum member 'Mercedes Cozy' for his help and advice today (plus use of some handy tools ) Top man

:bannana:

Will

 

[television]

In the links starting from 030
http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb1.as...120.983&GA=722.362722.621&CT=F&Cat=515&SID=32

 

[moakesr]

ADS I is just an adaptation of the SLS system fitted to the T124 and others such as the 190E series. It has the added complication of ECU controlled valves between the hydraulic struts and accumulators to set the softness or hardness of the suspension. There are also accelerometers and a steering angle sensor which are used by the ECU to dynamically set the damping rate of each strut many times each second.

The main ADS valve seems to have a number of functions, not sure of all them myself, and the manual height adjustment is done by pistons on the rods connected between the SLS valves and the anti roll bars, which are extended under ECU control dependant on switch position and/or speed.

It's like any hydraulic system, it doesn't like dirty fluid, the pipes do corrode if not covered in rust proofer, and the electrical contacts seem to corrode as they are in pretty hostile locations.

Cheers,

Richard (not superman, just determined man )

Does the ADS system operate with hydraulic struts, accumulators and valves to control the ride height? Does it adjust the damping rate in some way or is it just to control the ride height mainly?

FWIW, I've been working on one of my 2.5-16s today (with self-levelling rear suspension), replaced both rear accumulators, and one of the struts - probably an expensive job at a dealers, but if you're prepared for a bit of DIY or know a good specialist it's not that bad The Evolution 2.5-16s have fully adjustable ride height, high/medium/low, with front and rear self-levelling.

I can imagine the ECU being expensive (as Richard mentioned), possibly the 'valve' (depending on what it is), but are any of the other components shared with other MB models - the accumulators and other SLS parts on the 190 seem to be.

Maybe a side-line for Malcolm with the ECUs, or BBA reman possibly? I wonder how they fail?

Many thanks to forum member 'Mercedes Cozy' for his help and advice today (plus use of some handy tools ) Top man

:bannana:

Will

 

[television]

ADS I is just an adaptation of the SLS system fitted to the T124 and others such as the 190E series. It has the added complication of ECU controlled valves between the hydraulic struts and accumulators to set the softness or hardness of the suspension. There are also accelerometers and a steering angle sensor which are used by the ECU to dynamically set the damping rate of each strut many times each second.

The main ADS valve seems to have a number of functions, not sure of all them myself, and the manual height adjustment is done by pistons on the rods connected between the SLS valves and the anti roll bars, which are extended under ECU control dependant on switch position and/or speed.

It's like any hydraulic system, it doesn't like dirty fluid, the pipes do corrode if not covered in rust proofer, and the electrical contacts seem to corrode as they are in pretty hostile locations.

Cheers,

Richard (not superman, just determined man )

What is your view of the ride now it is all done, I love the ABC that I have, perhaps one day Richard I can pop in on you and see the car

 

[moakesr]

What is your view of the ride now it is all done, I love the ABC that I have, perhaps one day Richard I can pop in on you and see the car

The ride is exceptional, it combines the smoothness of a citroen, but without the wallowing that they suffered from in the CX/BX series of cars. I just love putting it in sport suspension mode, transmission in S and it changes character completely, and then when it's out of my system, I can put it all back to waft-o-matic mode

Just got my new lower control arms today, I will be finishing the front suspension overhaul at Easter. New drag link, new tie rods, new lower control arms. It still clunks over certain kinds of road imperfections, and the bushes had been soaked in power steering fluid when the steering box and pump were leaking, so they are due for replacement.

This year is mechanical restoration, next year will be bodywork, I don't like the spraywork done to the wings and bonnet by the PO.

You are always welcome here Malcolm I will also be visiting Dorset this summer, particularly Dorchester and Weymouth, so I am sure there will be plenty of chances to meet up.

Regards,

Richard

 

[moakesr]

Ask the seller if it has had a new engine wiring harness?

The original ones are bio-degradeable, and are crumbling by now, and are expensive to replace!

Richard

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1993-MERCEDES...tcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

thinking VERY hard about this as a 3rd car/ boys toy.

opinions welcome about a) the ad itslef (i.e. genuine) and b) living with a car like this.

Seems genuine

thanks

Marc

 

[television]

Thank you very much Richard,, and I look forward to that :bannana:

 

[Will]

Listening to what you say about the system, it does sound relatively straightforward. It's not as though the entire system could fail all at once, so it would be a case of just repairing or replacing what it neccesary.

I guess the ECU or maybe some of the valves might be expensive, but the rest should be ok? I guess even the shock absorbers on a normal 129 must need replacing periodically

Will

 

[moakesr]

If you have to pay some £99 an hour to diagnose any faults, then run away!

If you can fault find, handy with a spanner, and don't mind it being out of action for a while (perfect 2nd or 3rd car), then I would say go for it.

I would be much more worried about a crumbling wiring loom on the M120 engine, and it's propensity to eat MAF's and throttle actuators.

Cheers,

Richard

Listening to what you say about the system, it does sound relatively straightforward. It's not as though the entire system could fail all at once, so it would be a case of just repairing or replacing what it neccesary.

I guess the ECU or maybe some of the valves might be expensive, but the rest should be ok? I guess even the shock absorbers on a normal 129 must need replacing periodically

Will

 

[television]

Listening to what you say about the system, it does sound relatively straightforward. It's not as though the entire system could fail all at once, so it would be a case of just repairing or replacing what it neccesary.

I guess the ECU or maybe some of the valves might be expensive, but the rest should be ok? I guess even the shock absorbers on a normal 129 must need replacing periodically

Will

In my view Richard grasped the working of the system very quickly, there are pages of info but tying it together to make sense is the hard bit. Richard had not had the car long before his first report came out, and that was very positive.
I can see convoys of 129s with ADS going down to Devon

 

[Will]

Just had a quick flick through some of the pages on the EPC, it looks as though some of the parts are compatible with other MBs - eg, the accumulators (AKA Air Cells/Spheres) are a 140 part (90s S-class saloon), and are available as spare parts from Lemforder for around £50 a piece. The control valves and ECU would be my main concern with this system, I wouldn't want to know (well I would ) how much they cost!

I bet they ride lovely though when it's all working as it should, six litre V12 and hydraulic suspension would be a nice wafting GT

Will

 

[stats007]

Most of the non-R129 parts were lifted from the W124 and W140.

The wiring harness issue isn't that well documented for the V12s - as usual I'd always recommend a post '96 car anyway.

 

[KLP 92]

The 600 is a lazy engine, go for a 500, better by far....

Comments like this do make me smile. Now anyone thats had a V12 will soon tell you that in fact the opposite is true. Low down power is ALOT better than a V8, the torque is awesome. There is no way a V12 can be described as lazy, in fact i would say the v8 is the lazy one out the bunch. Not much bottom end torque and really needs the revs to build up the speed.

I drive V8s back to back with V12 so i can give a more accurate view in terms of performance. 0-60, the V12 can put a car length on a V8, 60-100 a good 5 car lengths, 100-150, 10 car lengths or more.

Back to the main discussion, i wouldn't buy an early SL, let alone a V12! I would buy a facelfit V12, but only if the mileage and history are consistent. They are complex engines and they do go wrong, a 500 would be the all round safer bet.

Having owned V12s i've been fortunate enough not to have any probs but in all honesty if i bought an older car i would choose reliability over the slight power advantage.

 

[IanA2]

Comments like this do make me smile. Now anyone thats had a V12 will soon tell you that in fact the opposite is true. Low down power is ALOT better than a V8, the torque is awesome. There is no way a V12 can be described as lazy, in fact i would say the v8 is the lazy one out the bunch. Not much bottom end torque and really needs the revs to build up the speed.

I drive V8s back to back with V12 so i can give a more accurate view in terms of performance. 0-60, the V12 can put a car length on a V8, 60-100 a good 5 car lengths, 100-150, 10 car lengths or more.

Back to the main discussion, i wouldn't buy an early SL, let alone a V12! I would buy a facelfit V12, but only if the mileage and history are consistent. They are complex engines and they do go wrong, a 500 would be the all round safer bet.

Having owned V12s i've been fortunate enough not to have any probs but in all honesty if i bought an older car i would choose reliability over the slight power advantage.

So you don't think you need to keep the revs up?

 

[moakesr]

There is no way a V12 can be described as lazy, in fact i would say the v8 is the lazy one out the bunch. Not much bottom end torque and really needs the revs to build up the speed.

Excellent we can have a war about which engine is best, v8 or v12

No contest really, I agree with KLP 92, that the V12 is superior in a number of ways, but the good old v8 claws it back for me with that charismatic sound, no V12 can produce that 'woofle' noise that I love so much

Richard

 

[jaymanek]

I agree with Nav, but then I would always still have a V8 for its characteristics... the V12's just have an air of "sewing machine" to them... i.e. no soul, just does what its supposed to silently..

 

[Vlad]

Really weird and probably slightly contentious.....I love the M119 5.0 engine and had many a fun journey in my 500E, but the thing that always disappointed me about the 5.0 V8 was the lack of V8 noise it produced...anybody else find this or is it just me...if so, I'll just get my coat!

 

[IanA2]

BTW I was comparing the 6 litre V12 to the 6 litre V8....