The _Don
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2010
- Messages
- 3,942
- Car
- Mb
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2010
- Messages
- 3,205
- Location
- Sussex and Tuscany
- Car
- 2003 W209 CLK, 2005 R171 SLK, Volvo XC40 P8 Twin Motor Pro EV
So that is £55,000 depreciation in 1,800 miles!
still has'nt sold he has had that for sale for a few weeks it was up at 138k at first and has been for sale at £110k for nearly a week and looks like he has just recently refreshed the ad.
it would be intresting to see what the trade is bidding on these cars at the moment.
the crazy thing is that some of the mb dealers still think that they are going to get strong money for there sls which have been registered for nearly a year now.
i think the £100k sls is only round the corner.
have you noticed that most big lumpy cars seem to be sitting around for ages now especially e63 amg's.
how you doing anyway the don?
what car you going for next?
it would be intresting to see what the trade is bidding on these cars at the moment.
the crazy thing is that some of the mb dealers still think that they are going to get strong money for there sls which have been registered for nearly a year now.
i think the £100k sls is only round the corner.
have you noticed that most big lumpy cars seem to be sitting around for ages now especially e63 amg's.
how you doing anyway the don?
what car you going for next?
i think that we lose the vat on the car as soon we buy the car which is nearly £25k then take the dealer margin approx 10% so nearly £14k so thats nearly £40k gone straight away.
i think a dealer will offer £100k and put it up at £119k and it will still be the cheapest in the country.
MicB
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2010
- Messages
- 1,037
- Location
- Beckley, Oxford
- Car
- MB SL500 (R230) 2003, MB SLK320 (R170) 2001, Volvo V70 XC AWD 2001
They are not selling in the numbers MB had expected......work at it and you could get a new one for the equivalent of about £130k.
Mic
Mic
that's a very good price .. and has B&O sound which is expensive
- Joined
- May 21, 2009
- Messages
- 6,132
- Location
- Planet Earth
- Car
- Polo GTi (and a travel pass for the train and subway)
janner
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2003
- Messages
- 2,816
- Car
- E320 Turbo Technics
Strange comment. Why would the VAT be lost?
the vat is lost in the sense that you can only claim the vat back if you are a leasing company or some vat qualifying companies, people who are not vat registered can not claim any of the vat back.
swannymere
Active Member
I think the price will continue to drop as people start to order the cabrio.
janner
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2003
- Messages
- 2,816
- Car
- E320 Turbo Technics
As a private individual you have to pay the VAT. It's not a van and very few companies will be able to use an SLS AMG with VAT not paid, hence the VAT is not lost. HMRC would look very closely at any company running a car like this as a company vehicle. Even if a company could use this car VAT free it would still have to charge VAT when it sold it.
yes you are right but the way a dealer will look at the car if he was trading it in would be that the vat has already gone ie£25k to the vat man when the individual brought the car so the car is £140k then they would take the dealer margin out from new which would be another £14k that would take the car to £126k thats what it would owe a dealer new before any other bonuses were attached to it.
i might be wrong but thats the way many dealers have told me.
That doesn't make sense, because even if the dealers have access to further 'new' SLS AMGs, they would need to add VAT to them before they can be sold!
Ie - bottom line, minimum cost to the dealer would still be £126k + VAT @ 20% on your figures.
Sounds like BS from the dealer to me!
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Messages
- 3,557
- Car
- S65, CLK5.6TT (WIP) & RRS 5.0 SC
That doesn't make sense, because even if the dealers have access to further 'new' SLS AMGs, they would need to add VAT to them before they can be sold!
Ie - bottom line, minimum cost to the dealer would still be £126k + VAT @ 20% on your figures.
Sounds like BS from the dealer to me!
Will,
amgmaster is correct. Main dealer sold said SLS @ £140K + VAT. VAT is payable to HMRC, so it does not constitute dealer's profit.
If they were to buy it back from this customer, they would obviously have to pay less than what they sell new ones for. I think their purchasing price would be significantly less than £126K as it's only 10% off the price of a new car (£140K).
D
Deleted member 37751
Guest
To look at VAT in the transaction of buying an SLS is nonsensical.
Like Janner says, how are you going to try and justify it to HMRC that you are claiming the VAT back on a £160k supercar? "I can just about get my socket set in the boot"
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Messages
- 3,557
- Car
- S65, CLK5.6TT (WIP) & RRS 5.0 SC
Unlike VAT registered companies, private buyers cannot claim paid VAT back.
Yep - but there will always be 20% VAT to pay on a new one, so the only VAT that the dealer can control is the amount paid on their margin?
VAT on £126k will always be the same.
VAT on the margin, will depend on what that is. £14k + 20% is £2800 in VAT I think.
A 1 day old SLS AMG 'VAT paid' costing £168k (?) is surely worth more than £126k, because you'd have to sell a new one for a minimum £151,200 including the VAT with absolutely no profit margin!
Or am I missing something?
Will
there is a few 11 plates on piston heads that are on sale for £139k with 1 at mb northhampton with 93 miles on it that would list at nearly £175k.tom hartley has just got 1 in silver with 100 miles on it that is for sale at £135k so if he is selling for £135k he would be working on at least 10% margin so probably he paid £120k max probably less.Yep - but there will always be 20% VAT to pay on a new one, so the only VAT that the dealer can control is the amount paid on their margin?
VAT on £126k will always be the same.
VAT on the margin, will depend on what that is. £14k + 20% is £2800 in VAT I think.
A 1 day old SLS AMG 'VAT paid' costing £168k (?) is surely worth more than £126k, because you'd have to sell a new one for a minimum £151,200 including the VAT with absolutely no profit margin!
Or am I missing something?
Will
there is another 1 at cummings that listed at £179k at the old price so with the new price increase it would be over £190k with 50miles on it that they have had for sale since september 2010 that was on sale for £130k+ which they have now put on poa.
they are just not selling untill they find what the market is prepared to pay for 1 which i think will be £100k.
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Messages
- 3,557
- Car
- S65, CLK5.6TT (WIP) & RRS 5.0 SC
Yep - but there will always be 20% VAT to pay on a new one, so the only VAT that the dealer can control is the amount paid on their margin?
VAT on £126k will always be the same.
VAT on the margin, will depend on what that is. £14k + 20% is £2800 in VAT I think.
A 1 day old SLS AMG 'VAT paid' costing £168k (?) is surely worth more than £126k, because you'd have to sell a new one for a minimum £151,200 including the VAT with absolutely no profit margin!
Or am I missing something?
Will
Here's the article that helps understand how VAT is charged on new and pre-owned cars: HM Revenue & Customs: Motor dealers and VAT: selling new or used vehicles and extras
Basically, VAT is always charged on new cars and is payable to HMRC in full.
It is different for used cars however:
- If used car was bought from an individual, who by law cannot charge VAT, the VAT is paid to HMRC only on margin (sale price minus purchasing price) and the car is sold without VAT on top of selling figure.
- If used car was bought from a VAT registered business, the VAT is chargeable on top of selling price and is payable to HMRC in full, just like the case with new cars.
Hence, 1 day old SLS with more than delivery miles (dlv miles still considered a new car by law) will be sold @ buy price + margin and no big VAT to pay for the next buyer.
It would be a lot easier to work out the actual cost of the car (both new and pre-owned) if we forget the VAT as whole. Individuals cannot reclaim it anyway.
