Small Mercs to go Rear Wheel drive in 2011

[verytalldave]

Just posted this link on a different thread and this point appears to be not very widely known despite not being "new" news...............
So I thought it may not be a bad idea to bring to the wider audience.........
So just incase you didnt know..........
Small Mercs to go rear-wheel drive - Latest Car News from 4Car

 

[A170 Blue]

Just posted this link on a different thread and this point appears to be not very widely known despite not being "new" news...............
So I thought it may not be a bad idea to bring to the wider audience.........
So just incase you didnt know..........
Small Mercs to go rear-wheel drive - Latest Car News from 4Car

I read about this when it was first published in 2008.

It has not stopped me from ordering my new A170 (A180?) C169 Avantgarde as I feel the current A Class (A169/C169) is the natural evolution from the earlier W168 model and incorporates the very best of Mercedes technology within a compact vehicle

 

[wemorgan]

Sharing the new C-class platform sounds more like cost cutting than offering the customer a more sporty RWD chassis. How many A and B-class owners want a sporty car vs. those that want a well packaged car?

After all the Ford Focus RS has 300bhp and is FWD.

 

[grober]

They are junking the sandwich floor concept as its too expensive and by using a shortened C class platform will save on development costs. Not sure if this will reduce safety or not. At least the new design may be easier to work on than the A class.

 

[wemorgan]

They are junking the sandwich floor concept as its too expensive and by using a shortened C class platform will save on development costs. Not sure if this will reduce safety or not. At least the new design may be easier to work on than the A class.

Cars with a longetudinally mounted engine can be safe as the engine and gearbox are pushed into the recess made by the centre tunnel.

I don't think I cover ever buy a second hand A-class for the reasons you mention. So in that respect at least the new A-class should be a better car.

 

[st4]

Just posted this link on a different thread and this point appears to be not very widely known despite not being "new" news...............
So I thought it may not be a bad idea to bring to the wider audience.........
So just incase you didnt know..........
Small Mercs to go rear-wheel drive - Latest Car News from 4Car

Excellent. This will be good for MB sales. It has been for BMWs with the 1er-and if I were in the market for a 5dr hatch its the only choice as RWD.

RWD is excellent and should be adopted by all car makers. FWD is an economy of design to allow better packaging. I want a more engaging car to drive and MB are delivering this. Well done to them.

Sharing the new C-class platform sounds more like cost cutting than offering the customer a more sporty RWD chassis. How many A and B-class owners want a sporty car vs. those that want a well packaged car?

After all the Ford Focus RS has 300bhp and is FWD.

Hate to disagree with you, but A and B class sales haven't been very good. The CLC has been outed for the cynical marketing manouver that it was, albiet its still a nice car. A RWD small car takes MB into more popular territory like BMW 1 series and Golf TGi territory. The 204 platfrom proves MB can make real drivers cars, and these will heighten that image.

Note the RWD may also prove more economical-less power assistance for the steering is needed, and around town the turning circle is better.A Focus RS would have been so much better if it were RWD. They made it it FWD because of financial reasons, as the platform is FWD, not for engineering ones.

 

[Dryce]

Hate to disagree with you, but A and B class sales haven't been very good.

There are good reasons for that.

Note the RWD may also prove more economical-less power assistance for the steering is needed, and around town the turning circle is better.A Focus RS would have been so much better if it were RWD. They made it it FWD because of financial reasons, as the platform is FWD, not for engineering ones.

I think you'll find the 'financial reasons' are actually the result of 'engineering ones'.

Bottom line here is FWD works in this sector for reasons of practicality. Somebody buying an A is not buying it as a traditional driver's car. The A and B are expensive within their sectors and don't carry the MB brand image as strongly.

It hasn't been a perfect ride for BMW either with the 1 Series. Supposedly a driver's car but not so strong on practicality. I haven't looked recently at pricing but they used to have very competitive deals well before the current crunch.

And very few people in the mass market these days are very aware of FWD or RWD.

 

[st13phil]

I'd suspect that the primary reason for this is little to do with driving dynamics and much to do with the cost of developing another platform.

Interestingly, when the new generation of twin-turbo diesels were anounced MB made the point that the unit had been designed to support either longitudinal or transverse mounting, so I'd be surprised if we've seen the end of FWD chassis from Stuttgart.

 

[J400uk]

I don't think its strictly true about the A-Class going RWD, see my post in the other topic:

Last I heard was the A-Class replacement would be based on a new FWD platform jointly developed with BMW for the MINI, and the B-Class as you said would be on a shorterned RWD platform of the C-Class. Its a shame IMO as the current cars although not the best dynamically are pretty much without rivals and offere huge interior space and the MB badge and quality in a small and stylish package. I guess the problem is they are too complicated and expensive to build, meaning they are not profitable for MB.

With regards to used values, they could go either way. The A-Class has very high repeat purchase rates and is popular with its owners, so if they stop making them in the current format then the values of decent spec late reg models could go up. The very same thing happened with the Audi A2 which was discountiuned and not replaced, and has now ended up quite a popular car on the used market with exceptionaly strong values.

Jalopnik - More on BMW/Mercedes Tieup: Next A-Class on Mini Platform? - Bmw

Hate to disagree with you, but A and B class sales haven't been very good.

Perhaps not, but thats good in someways as if they sold too many in volume it would devalue the brand in my eyes. Anyway one thing worth remembering is that the A-Class has one of the highest repeat purchase rates in its sector, so MB must be doing something right.

 

[J400uk]

Thinking about it, surely a RWD B-Class would negate the need for the recently released CLC (aka c-class sports coupe)?

There are good reasons for that.

I think you'll find the 'financial reasons' are actually the result of 'engineering ones'.

Bottom line here is FWD works in this sector for reasons of practicality. Somebody buying an A is not buying it as a traditional driver's car. The A and B are expensive within their sectors and don't carry the MB brand image as strongly.

It hasn't been a perfect ride for BMW either with the 1 Series. Supposedly a driver's car but not so strong on practicality. I haven't looked recently at pricing but they used to have very competitive deals well before the current crunch.

And very few people in the mass market these days are very aware of FWD or RWD.

The B-Class is expensive compared to other MPVs, but the A-Class is good value for money when compared against other premium small family cars such as the A3 and 1-series.

Not only that, but last time I looked the A160 Classic (petrol) undercutted the base spec VW Golf 1.6 S, which has slightly lesss equipment.

 

[st13phil]

It hasn't been a perfect ride for BMW either with the 1 Series. Supposedly a driver's car but not so strong on practicality.

The 1-Series (however good it is to drive, and I personally don't think it's that good) is handicapped by marmite styling, high price, mediocre equipment levels and significant lack of practicality in comparison to the Golf / A3 platform. Other than that, it's perfect

 

[MrT]

The B-Class is expensive compared to other MPVs, but the A-Class is good value for money when compared against other premium small family cars such as the A3 and 1-series.

Not only that, but last time I looked the A160 Classic (petrol) undercutted the base spec VW Golf 1.6 S, which has slightly lesss equipment.

Compared to e.g. a high-spec Fiesta or low to mid-spec Focus, the A and B are good value for money IMO.

The rumours are that the next gen A/B (and the rumoured spin-off models) will be built outside Germany.

 

[J400uk]

Compared to e.g. a high-spec Fiesta or low to mid-spec Focus, the A and B are good value for money IMO.

Can't really compare to a Fiesta or any car in that supermini sector. The A-Class is huge inside, bigger than a Golf or Focus etc, wider and taller than a Golf and the wheelbase is the same length as a MK6 Golf. A Fiesta on the other hand is much smaller than your Golf or Focus from the sector above.

 

[Dryce]

Can't really compare to a Fiesta or any car in that sector. The A-Class is huge inside, bigger than a Golf or Focus etc, wider and taller than a Golf and the wheelbase is the same length as a MK6 Golf.

You can compare the A-Class with a Focus, Astra, Corolla, Civic, Megane, C4, ....

And it handles worse than all of these and at the same time isn't cheap.

Where the A does score IMHO is as a second car in a household that has larger MBs. You can switch between vehicles and the control philosophy basically remains the same. It's a good urban/suburban/motorway car.

It's not a bad car but it would be way down my list if I was spending money on a smaller car.

 

[J400uk]

You can compare the A-Class with a Focus, Astra, Corolla, Civic, Megane, C4, ....

And it handles worse than all of these and at the same time isn't cheap.

I don't believe that, unless you have driven every single car in the sector. Its handling may not be the best but its certainly not the worse, I have never found it a problem. I have also never read a review that has said its the worse, and nor does it come out bottom in the handling deparment in driver power surveys (57th out of 100 cars in driver power 2009).

Even if you were right, there is much more to a car than its handling ability. As for your claims about prices, I have already proved an A160 Classic SE retails very slightly cheaper than a VW Golf 1.6 S. There is 5bhp between the engines, and the Merc has more equipment.

 

[wemorgan]

I've never owned an A-class but I have an Audi A2 diesel, which in its day was a competitor. The A2 was lighter and had more fuel efficient engines that the more mainstream rivals like Focus. This made for very significantly lower running costs. As a second hand buy I agree the A-class and A2 are good value, though I'd still favour the A2 myself as the servicing costs appear to be cheaper.

I wonder if the initial build quality issues of the first generation A-class are still haunting MB and putting off potential buyers?.....once bitten, twice shy and all that

 

[J400uk]

I wonder if the initial build quality issues of the first generation A-class are still haunting MB and putting off potential buyers?.....once bitten, twice shy and all that

Thats what I wonder, I think the damage to the name with the terrible first gen car is irreparable.

 

[Dryce]

I don't believe that, unless you have driven every single car in the sector. Its handling may not be the best but its certainly not the worse, I have never found it a problem. I have also never read a review that has said its the worse, and nor does it come out bottom in the handling deparment in driver power surveys.

I've driven quite a few miles over the last 18 months or so in the A-Class. And Focus. And Astra. And Corolla. And Megane.

The A isn't exactly evil but it's not good.

For me arriving at an airport with a long drive ahead then if they hand me the keys to an A it's good. It feels like home. But not so much good for pushing cross country to somewhere inconvenient.

Even if you were right, there is much more to a car than its handling ability. As for your claims about prices, I have already proved an A160 Classic SE retails very slightly cheaper than a VW Golf 1.6 S. There is 5bhp between the engines, and the Merc has more equipment.

That just proves Golfs are expensive.

It doesn't actually demonstrate anything virtuous about the A.

 

[J400uk]

That just proves Golfs are expensive.

It doesn't actually demonstrate anything virtuous about the A.

I'm not sure were this argument about the prices is going.

Compared to two mainstream rivals, the Golf 1.6 S and Focus 1.6 Style, the A160 is cheaper.

Compared to two premium rivals, the BMW 116i and Audi A3 1.6, the A160 is significantly cheaper.

This is of course going by the list prices.

 

[J400uk]

I've driven quite a few miles over the last 18 months or so in the A-Class. And Focus. And Astra. And Corolla. And Megane.

The A isn't exactly evil but it's not good.

For me arriving at an airport with a long drive ahead then if they hand me the keys to an A it's good. It feels like home. But not so much good for pushing cross country to somewhere inconvenient.

Ok well two things
1 - The handling characertistics can vary model to model because of differings weights, differing suspnsion setups, differing wheels.

2 - A bad handling car in your eyes may be a good handling car in someone elses eyes. The current Astra and Auris/ Corolla both score lower in driver power than the A for instance.