snake oil anyone?

[andy_k]

run your car on water

 

[andy_k]

I loved this bit in the "powerful driving techniques" section

"The 305 MPG readout you see is not my average, however it is REAL and extends my average fuel economy"

yep, knock your car into neutral doing 70 mph and you too can achieve 305 miles per gallon

 

[Shude]

There is nothing scientifically wrong with separating hydrogen (and oxygen) from water using electricity and AFAIK there is little modification required to make a petrol-powered car engine run on hydrogen.

The pics look a bit dodgy and I'm not sure their explanations make any sense but the overall principle of collecting hydrogen and then running a car on it is totally plausible.

 

[andy_k]

not convinced shude, surely the energy releasewd by the whole process would be less than that required to generate it.

What does the baking soda do?

What is HHO gas? 2 parts Hydrogen and one part water - H2O maybe

all sounds a bit suspicious to me

 

[verytalldave]

MANY years ago, there was a system advertised in magazines like "Practical Car Mechanics" that claimed to improve your MPG by about !0-15%. No silly claims. I remember it was based on the fact that cars returned a better MPG while the weather was raining or damp. It was concluded that it was the water suspended in the air which had this effect. The device injected a small amount of steam into the fuel line and it was this that gave the increase in MPG. Does anyone else recall this device/system. Dont know what became of it, but I suspect this "invention" probably borrows more than a tad from that earlier device.

 

[Rose Chap]

This is an entirely genuine and trustworthy system, so much so the the owners of the business will pay you to have it.

Due to a recently deceased relative they have in their offshore Nigerian bank account over $10,000,000 etc etc etc.

 

[BonzoDog]

MANY years ago, there was a system advertised in magazines like "Practical Car Mechanics" that claimed to improve your MPG by about !0-15%. No silly claims. I remember it was based on the fact that cars returned a better MPG while the weather was raining or damp. It was concluded that it was the water suspended in the air which had this effect. The device injected a small amount of steam into the fuel line and it was this that gave the increase in MPG. Does anyone else recall this device/system. Dont know what became of it, but I suspect this "invention" probably borrows more than a tad from that earlier device.

Years ago I had an American colleague, an engineer, who rigged his car up with a Squeezy bottle containing water, on the dashboard, connected by a tube to the carburettor. He would drive along and occasionally give the bottle a squeeze.
It may have worked but this was just considered to be another of his crazy ideas.

 

[Colin_b]

There is nothing scientifically wrong with separating hydrogen (and oxygen) from water using electricity and AFAIK there is little modification required to make a petrol-powered car engine run on hydrogen.

The pics look a bit dodgy and I'm not sure their explanations make any sense but the overall principle of collecting hydrogen and then running a car on it is totally plausible.

The slight drawback is that you use more energy separtating the H & O2 than they can produce....

 

[DITTRICH]

I have never heard of HHO gas. From a chemical symbol point of view H2O would be correct. AFter all CO2 isn't COO gas. Seeing as how the battery is ultimately powered by the engine using petrol then how is this process supposed to produce more energy than is put into it? I have often longed for the day when cars would be covered in a material capable of doing what solar cells do. Distilled water held in the car would be split into H2 and O2 and stored for use later on. However, storing the H2 and or O2, and generating enough of it are the real problems at present. Sadly, the device featured fails on logic. I suspect that the improvements mentioned for older carburettor cars would be achieved anyway simply by tuning the car properly. The old duffer in the pictures probably never went to a garage for the last 20 years and services the car himself?
My 2c
Les

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

HHO is just the raw mixture of (2)H2 and O2 gases produced from the electrolysis of (2 molecules) H2O. Baking soda (NaHCO3) is added as an electrolyte as water does not conduct electricity (don't put a live wire in your bath ).

As the vessel holds only 900 ml and there's no pressurising system you 'ain't' going to be adding a lot of H2 nor O2 to the combustion mixture.

However if you cool the fuel charge then more fuel/air mix will enter the combustion chamber (it's why turbo chargers have intercoolers) so there's no point in the electrolysis step.

Again, if this were so simple AND IT WORKED then surely all vehicle manufacturers would incorporate it into the fuelling system.

Back to work.

Cheers,

 

[MBManInKen]

There is nothing scientifically wrong with separating hydrogen (and oxygen) from water using electricity and AFAIK there is little modification required to make a petrol-powered car engine run on hydrogen.

Using electrolysis to split water in its constituent components hydrogen and oxygen is a simple, well-known process, and yes, you can "burn" them together again. Nothing new there and I would think every high school kid will have done this at some point during their chemistry lessons.

However, let's also be clear that you can not extract a net energy benefit from this, as that would violate the first and second laws of thermodynamics and in effect be a perpetual motion machine.

 

[GRAV888]

run your car on water

The new lorries (euro 5) run on water, well sort of.
They not only require diesel, but an additive called ADBLUE.

What is AdBlue made from?


AdBlue is a made from a chemical called urea (sometimes called carbamide) dissolved in pure water. Urea is a synthetic product, generally manufactured from natural gas, and is used in chemical fertilizers, plastics, and cosmetics. AdBlue is not made from recycled agricultural products.

 

[Spinal]

However, let's also be clear that you can not extract a net energy benefit from this, as that would violate the first and second laws of thermodynamics and in effect be a perpetual motion machine.

I'm not saying this works... but...

No, not really - because you are effectively "using" the water as fuel. The energy input is twofold
-the battery (to split the water)
-the water (from some olf souce that mixed H and O)
So realy, you would be going back to e=mcc (sorry, no squared key here) and effectively you would be proving that matter is being converted to energy. In theory, the total "exhaust" water should be less than the total "input" water.

I have seen a car run on water before, the technology isn't new. That said, the example I saw required something pretty close to a tanker of water to complete a normal journey. This WAS a couple of years ago though...

There would be a bi-product of this, I'm guessing
That said, I still doubt the whole thing (domain is registered to "Ozzy Freedom" )

From WikiPedia

HHO gas or Klein gas is an oxyhydrogen mixture made by water electrolysis and has been trademarked Aquygen by the firm Hydrogen Technology Applications.


[edit] Controversial claims
Unverified claims [7] have been made about the properties of "HHO gas", claiming as basis an unproven new state of matter called magnegases [5] and an unproven theory about magnecules.
The claimed difference between HHO and Brown's gas is unverified, untested, and generally unsubstantiated.

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

Urea is, in fact, the major component of (human) urine so are MB taking the p..s?

I don't think this system is aiming to 'create' energy I think the implication (though I don't believe it) is that it aids fuel combustion either by adding gaseous H2 and O2 (remember that nitrous oxide systems increase power by adding 'extra' Oxygen) or by cooling the fuel/air charge so allowing an increased fuel charge.

Snake vapour, perhaps?

Cheers,

 

[nimmat]

Not a scientist but trying to remember something in old school days regarding hydrogen bonding (Reasons why ice is lighter then water despite bieng solid). I think what might be happening is that the electrolysis process somehow weakens the hydrogen bonding or maybe not and when the water drop goes into the engine, it turns to steam just by the heat of the combustion process. Now a thing to note here is that we are getting a lot of energy released during this process of water evaporation as the heat that converts it is really a waste or probably very nominal but the energy released by breaking up of the hydrogen bonds and water converting into steam exerts more pressure then the heat is actually consumes for the process. So I do find it a bit logical but its not the water that is fueling the car, its the heat of the engine that is expanding the water into steam (like a combination of the internal combustion engine + traditional steam engine) that makes the difference.

Not sure if anyone (including myself) really understood what I said as above








ducks and hides -

 

[muhandis89]

Have just done a test with a Deutz 4 cyl engine attached to a trommel screen(screen geen waste).The hydrogen is produced using water and Sodium Hydroxide as an electrolyte.

Engine spec:

http://www.deutz.com/live_deutz_pro...59a10252.de.0/datenblatt+2012+bau+en+0903.pdf

Engineeutz 4 cyl water cooled turbo diesel around 147 BHP
Model:BF 4M 2012
Location:Comvert site
Use:McCloskey crusher,under heavy load.
Without HHO:17.00 lit/hr
With HHO: 9.4lit hour
Test over one hour.Longer test 5hr+ underway now.
date of Test; 18 03.11

Test today over 7 hours,with hydrogen on gave 9.97 lit/hr over 7 hours.Will do same test without hydrogen early next week,to compare.Trommel was crushing screening heavy green waste throughout.

 

[muhandis89]

Have just done a test with a Deutz 4 cyl engine attached to a trommel screen(screen geen waste).The hydrogen is produced using water and Sodium Hydroxide as an electrolyte.

Engine spec:

http://www.deutz.com/live_deutz_pro...59a10252.de.0/datenblatt+2012+bau+en+0903.pdf

Engineeutz 4 cyl water cooled turbo diesel around 147 BHP
Model:BF 4M 2012
Location:Comvert site
Use:McCloskey crusher,under heavy load.
Without HHO:17.00 lit/hr
With HHO: 9.4lit hour
Test over one hour.Longer test 5hr+ underway now.
date of Test; 18 03.11

Test today over 7 hours,with hydrogen on gave 9.97 lit/hr over 7 hours.Will do same test without hydrogen early next week,to compare.Trommel was crushing screening heavy green waste throughout.

 

[finisterre]

I remember an acquaintance doing his engineering PhD on water injection back in the 70s. IIRC there was a benefit. Something to do with flame temperature?

I saw him on the telly a while back, he had written the bunsfield fire report so he must know his stuff about burning petrochemicals.

I shall see if I can look out his email and point him at this thread.