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Thanks all.

I've looked at our usage and it seems we are running at around 3kW PA at the moment.

We fully LED'd up as of 3 years ago as I replaced bulbs as they went and replaced original bathroom / kitchen fittings at the end of life and have a fairly modern house (20 years old).

It sounds like batteries and taking advantage of cheaper energy could be the way to go if the maths works.

I guess in the future, when electric boilers take over from gas when they are phased out, electricity demand could well be higher and solar panels will make more sense.
I recently helped an old school friend - now living in Chelmsford - plan his energy needs during a big renovation development on his house and, just like I told him, if you're looking at renewables then it makes the most sense to look at a "whole house" solution.

In the end we got him fitted a 12kw Mitsi Ecodan air source heat pump (told him to wait for the new Vaillant which is amazing but time constraints stopped that) with 4kw of solar and 5.1kw of battery storage. Capex was circa £18k but he'll receive just around £11k plus inflation back via the RHI. I also got him on a grid trading tariff but that's still quite new so we'll see how that pans out.
 
What was the cost of the storage - something I would be interested in to maximize my usage..
 
What was the cost of the storage - something I would be interested in to maximize my usage..
It was about £3000 if I remember correctly which will easily cover itself by powering the heat pump. For anyone that asks now, I always tell them to look at the energy needs of your whole house.

The electrification of heat is just around the corner and really will change our energy use forever; solar - on its own - is neither here nor there without storage but heat pumps will change the market completely.
 
Hi,
I still work in sustainability, energy & water consultancy here in Abu Dhabi.
One project that I am working on is the tallest & largest zero energy building in the world.
Its the new HQ for DEWA (Dubai Energy & Water Authority)
The whole roof is solar panel equipped - as is much of the facade.
Internally it will be using AI technology to control the BMS (Building Management System) and is going to generate more electricity than it uses.
Here are some renders of the building!
View attachment 102366View attachment 102367View attachment 102368
Cheers
Steve

On a different scale to your project I'm currently about half way through a pair of single storey dwellings, being built to replace redundant farm buildings in south Norfolk. Timber frame clad with black boarding, pantile roofs. Can barely be seen from the road.
Planners have imposed a number of conditions including:-
Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification) no solar PV or solar thermal equipment [Part 14 Class A]; Solar equipment within the curtilage; flues [Part 14 Class E, F] air source heat pumps [Part 14 Class G]; wind turbine [Class H, I] or any other works as defined in Part 14 of that Order shall be erected or brought onto the land unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
So we are forced into LPG boilers for heating.......................:doh::wallbash:
 
On a different scale to your project I'm currently about half way through a pair of single storey dwellings, being built to replace redundant farm buildings in south Norfolk. Timber frame clad with black boarding, pantile roofs. Can barely be seen from the road.
Planners have imposed a number of conditions including:-
Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification) no solar PV or solar thermal equipment [Part 14 Class A]; Solar equipment within the curtilage; flues [Part 14 Class E, F] air source heat pumps [Part 14 Class G]; wind turbine [Class H, I] or any other works as defined in Part 14 of that Order shall be erected or brought onto the land unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
So we are forced into LPG boilers for heating.......................:doh::wallbash:

Why would you not put a planning application in? Do you know already the planners will knock it back because the area you are in has some special status?
 
On a different scale to your project I'm currently about half way through a pair of single storey dwellings, being built to replace redundant farm buildings in south Norfolk. Timber frame clad with black boarding, pantile roofs. Can barely be seen from the road.
Planners have imposed a number of conditions including:-
Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification) no solar PV or solar thermal equipment [Part 14 Class A]; Solar equipment within the curtilage; flues [Part 14 Class E, F] air source heat pumps [Part 14 Class G]; wind turbine [Class H, I] or any other works as defined in Part 14 of that Order shall be erected or brought onto the land unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
So we are forced into LPG boilers for heating.......................:doh::wallbash:
Hi,
How much land is there around the dwellings?
If there is a decent amount available - look at ground source heat pumps as a really good alternative source of heating.
They work best with underfloor heating - so are ideal on new build properties.
However - they are not cheap!
I really dislike LPG or Oil as a source of heating - ugly tanks, inefficient (compared with heat pumps),expensive to run and too dependent on global fuel price changes.
I have been out of the UK for 8 years now - so am not familiar with the current state of grants and RHI (Renewabie Heat Inititaive) for dwellings that don’t have access to mains gas - but worth you checking what is available.
Cheers
Steve
 
Why would you not put a planning application in? Do you know already the planners will knock it back because the area you are in has some special status?
Site was bought with planning permission in place - planning gained on appeal. Many onerous conditions. When built we are selling on.
 
Hi,
How much land is there around the dwellings?
If there is a decent amount available - look at ground source heat pumps as a really good alternative source of heating.
They work best with underfloor heating - so are ideal on new build properties.
However - they are not cheap!
I really dislike LPG or Oil as a source of heating - ugly tanks, inefficient (compared with heat pumps),expensive to run and too dependent on global fuel price changes.
I have been out of the UK for 8 years now - so am not familiar with the current state of grants and RHI (Renewabie Heat Inititaive) for dwellings that don’t have access to mains gas - but worth you checking what is available.
Cheers
Steve
As new sites go, reasonable back gardens. But, the cost of ground source heat pumps and the internal space needed for the heat pump rule them out. These are dwellings of about 100sq.m and 90sq.m.
As developers, LPG boilers are a cheap option for us as the tanks & pipework are provided FOC by the LPG providers. We just have to dig trenches and we can get underground tanks.
As developers there are no incentives such as RHI available as far as I am aware.
I was just amazed by the planners attitude ruling out ASHP & solar panels.
Oil boilers are not efficient enough to meet building regulations without solar panels and gas boilers are being outlawed by the govt for new dwellings in 2024
 
As new sites go, reasonable back gardens. But, the cost of ground source heat pumps and the internal space needed for the heat pump rule them out. These are dwellings of about 100sq.m and 90sq.m.
As developers, LPG boilers are a cheap option for us as the tanks & pipework are provided FOC by the LPG providers. We just have to dig trenches and we can get underground tanks.
As developers there are no incentives such as RHI available as far as I am aware.
I was just amazed by the planners attitude ruling out ASHP & solar panels.
Oil boilers are not efficient enough to meet building regulations without solar panels and gas boilers are being outlawed by the govt for new dwellings in 2024
As you’re only developing two properties, RHI might be possible (but unlikely) https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/defa...i_helpsheet_custombuild_v1_1_feb_2015_web.pdf

A quick rule of thumb is if the property had any sort of heating *before* the redevelopment then it should be possible to claim RHI.
 
As you’re only developing two properties, RHI might be possible (but unlikely) https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/defa...i_helpsheet_custombuild_v1_1_feb_2015_web.pdf

A quick rule of thumb is if the property had any sort of heating *before* the redevelopment then it should be possible to claim RHI.
Buildings were redundant farm sheds/stables which the owner got automatic approval to convert to dwellings - local authority could not refuse.
On starting the conversion the owner found that there were no foundations and the walls were structurally unsound. He decided to pull the shed down to rebuild & the local authority quickly stepped in and stopped work as the permission was for conversion not new build.
The had to put in an application for new build which was refused as the land is outside the village boundary.
An appeal was submitted and won as the new build would match the farm building that were previously there and the local authority had an insufficient land supply for new housing.
But, between them they imposed the following conditions:-
1) The development hereby permitted shall begin not later than three years from the date of this decision.
2) The development hereby permitted shall be carried out in accordance with the following approved plans: 0002/DD.006, 0002/PL.011/A, 0002/PL.012/A, 0002/DD.101 and 0002/DD.007.
3) Prior to the first occupation of the development hereby permitted the proposed access, on-site car parking and turning area shall be laid out, levelled, surfaced and drained in accordance with the approved plan and retained thereafter for these specific uses.
4) Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification), no enlargement, improvement or other alterations of the dwellings [Class A]; no additions or alterations to the roofs [Class B & C]; no provision of porches [Class D]; nor the provision within the curtilage of the dwellings of any building or enclosure, swimming or other pool [Class E] or any other works as defined by Classes A, B C, D and E of Part 1 of Schedule 2 of that Order shall be erected or brought onto the land unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
5) Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification), no fences, gates, walls or other means of enclosure as defined within Class A of Part 2 of Schedule 2 of that Order shall be provided unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
6) Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification) no solar PV or solar thermal equipment [Part 14 Class A]; Solar equipment within the curtilage; flues [Part 14 Class E, F] air source heat pumps [Part 14 Class G]; wind turbine [Class H, I] or any other works as defined in Part 14 of that Order shall be erected or brought onto the land unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
7) No means of foul water disposal shall be used other than the sealed system or private treatment plant indicated on the application details. The foul water disposal shall be implemented prior to the first occupation and retained as such thereafter.
8) Prior to the commencement of the development hereby permitted full details of the means of surface water drainage shall be submitted to and agreed in writing with the local planning authority. The development shall be carried out in accordance with the agreed details which shall be retained and maintained thereafter.
Appeal Decision APP/L2630/W/17/3188452
Planning Inspectorate 5
9) The development hereby approved shall be designed and built to achieve a water consumption rate of no more than 105 litres/person/day. All required water conservation measures installed to achieve this rate shall be retained/upgraded to ensure the required water consumption rate is not exceeded for the lifetime of the development.
10) Within the first planting season following the commencement of work on site, or in accordance with a programme agreed in writing with the local planning authority, native species hedging in staggered rows planted at a rate of 4 plants per linear metre shall be planted along the boundaries as indicated on the approved plans. Any plants which die, are diseased, are removed or otherwise fail within the first five years following planting shall be replaced with the same species and size of plant unless otherwise agreed in writing with the local planning authority.
11) The following ecological mitigation shall be adhered to one month prior to commencement of works on site and during the construction period:
 No piles of loose sand or granular materials into which amphibians could bury themselves should be left around the site. All such materials should be delivered in bags and kept on pallets or hard standing until required for use
 Should any waste be generated from the development, this should be placed straight into skips or rubble sacks, or immediately removed and not left lying around the site.
 No bonfires should be made or lit on site.
 All trenches should be left covered at night and checked for the presence of great crested newts in the morning before they are filled in.
 The development footprint and any working areas should be maintained in its current condition by regular mowing to ground level at weekly intervals until construction commences.
 If great crested newts are identified at any stage during the development, work should immediately cease and suitably qualified ecologist shall be contacted for further advice.

12) In the event that contamination that was not previously identified is found at any time when carrying out the approved development, it must be reported in writing immediately to the local planning authority. All development shall cease and shall not recommence until: 1) a report has been submitted and agreed in writing by the local planning authority which includes results of an investigation and risk assessment together with proposed remediation scheme to deal with the risk identified and 2) the agreed remediation scheme has been carried out and a validation report demonstrating its effectiveness has been approved in writing by the local planning authority.
 
Buildings were redundant farm sheds/stables which the owner got automatic approval to convert to dwellings - local authority could not refuse.
On starting the conversion the owner found that there were no foundations and the walls were structurally unsound. He decided to pull the shed down to rebuild & the local authority quickly stepped in and stopped work as the permission was for conversion not new build.
The had to put in an application for new build which was refused as the land is outside the village boundary.
An appeal was submitted and won as the new build would match the farm building that were previously there and the local authority had an insufficient land supply for new housing.
But, between them they imposed the following conditions:-
1) The development hereby permitted shall begin not later than three years from the date of this decision.
2) The development hereby permitted shall be carried out in accordance with the following approved plans: 0002/DD.006, 0002/PL.011/A, 0002/PL.012/A, 0002/DD.101 and 0002/DD.007.
3) Prior to the first occupation of the development hereby permitted the proposed access, on-site car parking and turning area shall be laid out, levelled, surfaced and drained in accordance with the approved plan and retained thereafter for these specific uses.
4) Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification), no enlargement, improvement or other alterations of the dwellings [Class A]; no additions or alterations to the roofs [Class B & C]; no provision of porches [Class D]; nor the provision within the curtilage of the dwellings of any building or enclosure, swimming or other pool [Class E] or any other works as defined by Classes A, B C, D and E of Part 1 of Schedule 2 of that Order shall be erected or brought onto the land unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
5) Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification), no fences, gates, walls or other means of enclosure as defined within Class A of Part 2 of Schedule 2 of that Order shall be provided unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
6) Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification) no solar PV or solar thermal equipment [Part 14 Class A]; Solar equipment within the curtilage; flues [Part 14 Class E, F] air source heat pumps [Part 14 Class G]; wind turbine [Class H, I] or any other works as defined in Part 14 of that Order shall be erected or brought onto the land unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
7) No means of foul water disposal shall be used other than the sealed system or private treatment plant indicated on the application details. The foul water disposal shall be implemented prior to the first occupation and retained as such thereafter.
8) Prior to the commencement of the development hereby permitted full details of the means of surface water drainage shall be submitted to and agreed in writing with the local planning authority. The development shall be carried out in accordance with the agreed details which shall be retained and maintained thereafter.
Appeal Decision APP/L2630/W/17/3188452
Planning Inspectorate 5
9) The development hereby approved shall be designed and built to achieve a water consumption rate of no more than 105 litres/person/day. All required water conservation measures installed to achieve this rate shall be retained/upgraded to ensure the required water consumption rate is not exceeded for the lifetime of the development.
10) Within the first planting season following the commencement of work on site, or in accordance with a programme agreed in writing with the local planning authority, native species hedging in staggered rows planted at a rate of 4 plants per linear metre shall be planted along the boundaries as indicated on the approved plans. Any plants which die, are diseased, are removed or otherwise fail within the first five years following planting shall be replaced with the same species and size of plant unless otherwise agreed in writing with the local planning authority.
11) The following ecological mitigation shall be adhered to one month prior to commencement of works on site and during the construction period:
 No piles of loose sand or granular materials into which amphibians could bury themselves should be left around the site. All such materials should be delivered in bags and kept on pallets or hard standing until required for use
 Should any waste be generated from the development, this should be placed straight into skips or rubble sacks, or immediately removed and not left lying around the site.
 No bonfires should be made or lit on site.
 All trenches should be left covered at night and checked for the presence of great crested newts in the morning before they are filled in.
 The development footprint and any working areas should be maintained in its current condition by regular mowing to ground level at weekly intervals until construction commences.
 If great crested newts are identified at any stage during the development, work should immediately cease and suitably qualified ecologist shall be contacted for further advice.

12) In the event that contamination that was not previously identified is found at any time when carrying out the approved development, it must be reported in writing immediately to the local planning authority. All development shall cease and shall not recommence until: 1) a report has been submitted and agreed in writing by the local planning authority which includes results of an investigation and risk assessment together with proposed remediation scheme to deal with the risk identified and 2) the agreed remediation scheme has been carried out and a validation report demonstrating its effectiveness has been approved in writing by the local planning authority.
These restrictions on the use of energy efficient products is so contra to current trends to fit these products to new builds - it’s just crazy!
It seems that the council added these restrictions as a retaliation for losing the appeal.
In doing this - they are financially penalising whoever buys or lives in these dwellings for years to come!
I cannot even see these restrictions being legal - should they be challenged.
So many councils around the country demand solar thermal and solar PV systems to be fitted!!
 
Buildings were redundant farm sheds/stables which the owner got automatic approval to convert to dwellings - local authority could not refuse.
On starting the conversion the owner found that there were no foundations and the walls were structurally unsound. He decided to pull the shed down to rebuild & the local authority quickly stepped in and stopped work as the permission was for conversion not new build.
The had to put in an application for new build which was refused as the land is outside the village boundary.
An appeal was submitted and won as the new build would match the farm building that were previously there and the local authority had an insufficient land supply for new housing.
But, between them they imposed the following conditions:-
1) The development hereby permitted shall begin not later than three years from the date of this decision.
2) The development hereby permitted shall be carried out in accordance with the following approved plans: 0002/DD.006, 0002/PL.011/A, 0002/PL.012/A, 0002/DD.101 and 0002/DD.007.
3) Prior to the first occupation of the development hereby permitted the proposed access, on-site car parking and turning area shall be laid out, levelled, surfaced and drained in accordance with the approved plan and retained thereafter for these specific uses.
4) Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification), no enlargement, improvement or other alterations of the dwellings [Class A]; no additions or alterations to the roofs [Class B & C]; no provision of porches [Class D]; nor the provision within the curtilage of the dwellings of any building or enclosure, swimming or other pool [Class E] or any other works as defined by Classes A, B C, D and E of Part 1 of Schedule 2 of that Order shall be erected or brought onto the land unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
5) Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification), no fences, gates, walls or other means of enclosure as defined within Class A of Part 2 of Schedule 2 of that Order shall be provided unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
6) Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order) (with or without modification) no solar PV or solar thermal equipment [Part 14 Class A]; Solar equipment within the curtilage; flues [Part 14 Class E, F] air source heat pumps [Part 14 Class G]; wind turbine [Class H, I] or any other works as defined in Part 14 of that Order shall be erected or brought onto the land unless a planning application is first submitted to and approved by the local planning authority.
7) No means of foul water disposal shall be used other than the sealed system or private treatment plant indicated on the application details. The foul water disposal shall be implemented prior to the first occupation and retained as such thereafter.
8) Prior to the commencement of the development hereby permitted full details of the means of surface water drainage shall be submitted to and agreed in writing with the local planning authority. The development shall be carried out in accordance with the agreed details which shall be retained and maintained thereafter.
Appeal Decision APP/L2630/W/17/3188452
Planning Inspectorate 5
9) The development hereby approved shall be designed and built to achieve a water consumption rate of no more than 105 litres/person/day. All required water conservation measures installed to achieve this rate shall be retained/upgraded to ensure the required water consumption rate is not exceeded for the lifetime of the development.
10) Within the first planting season following the commencement of work on site, or in accordance with a programme agreed in writing with the local planning authority, native species hedging in staggered rows planted at a rate of 4 plants per linear metre shall be planted along the boundaries as indicated on the approved plans. Any plants which die, are diseased, are removed or otherwise fail within the first five years following planting shall be replaced with the same species and size of plant unless otherwise agreed in writing with the local planning authority.
11) The following ecological mitigation shall be adhered to one month prior to commencement of works on site and during the construction period:
 No piles of loose sand or granular materials into which amphibians could bury themselves should be left around the site. All such materials should be delivered in bags and kept on pallets or hard standing until required for use
 Should any waste be generated from the development, this should be placed straight into skips or rubble sacks, or immediately removed and not left lying around the site.
 No bonfires should be made or lit on site.
 All trenches should be left covered at night and checked for the presence of great crested newts in the morning before they are filled in.
 The development footprint and any working areas should be maintained in its current condition by regular mowing to ground level at weekly intervals until construction commences.
 If great crested newts are identified at any stage during the development, work should immediately cease and suitably qualified ecologist shall be contacted for further advice.

12) In the event that contamination that was not previously identified is found at any time when carrying out the approved development, it must be reported in writing immediately to the local planning authority. All development shall cease and shall not recommence until: 1) a report has been submitted and agreed in writing by the local planning authority which includes results of an investigation and risk assessment together with proposed remediation scheme to deal with the risk identified and 2) the agreed remediation scheme has been carried out and a validation report demonstrating its effectiveness has been approved in writing by the local planning authority.
Crazy - I can’t see how this can even be legal!

I stopped trying to second guess the thoughts of council folk after my company offered to fit solar and battery free on every council house and they came up with every excuse under the sun to not do it!
 

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