Soldiers caught killing...

[mobeyone]

Robert Bales: US Soldier 'Can't Remember' Afghan Killings, Lawyer Says, As Wife Karilyn Speaks Out | World News | Sky News

Ok, I dont have the full facts here but somethings not right.

Firstly, the soldier was removed from the country and is now in the US. He is now unable to recall the events of that evening and the courts dont seem to be in a hurry to bring this to a close and the cynic in me cannot help but think that he will walk from this.

Surely, he should have been charged by the Afgans? and questions why we are extraditing British nationals?

 

[snoop51]

3 tours of Iraq, didn't want to go to Afghanistan, physical and mental issues prior to posting and saw his mate blown up the day before he went mental seem to point to him not being held responsible for his own actions. Maybe it's his senior officers who should be held accountable for sending someone in a fragile state into such conditions in the first place?

 

[mobeyone]

3 tours of Iraq, didn't want to go to Afghanistan, physical and mental issues prior to posting and saw his mate blown up the day before he went mental seem to point to him not being held responsible for his own actions. Maybe it's his senior officers who should be held accountable for sending someone in a fragile state into such conditions in the first place?

Then why was he still serving? why did the US army not carry appropriate examinations prior to his dispatch?

Yes, I agree his state of mind should have been explored and his seniors are just as much responsible as he but before his posting his reservations would have been noted if he was clearly not happy about the decision and that should have led to a review of him travelling to Afghan. If he was as decorated as they say he is, then he should have been taken more seriously. Anyone in that state of mind will have shown tendancies that could lead to this type of behaviour so again, why was this not noted by his immidiate superiour in Afghan?

But, his state of mind and loss of a friend surely cannot be justification for the slaughter of the children and families coupled with the subsequent burning of the dead bodies that were involved? His actions were incomprehensible and many fear something which happens quite regularly over there.

 

[grober]

That phrase beloved of American TV Crime shows seems apposite here :-
"Lawyered up"???
Oh and bye the bye http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-1.5m-after-he-defrauded-elderly-couple.html

and

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...accused-of-murdering-16-Afghan-villagers.html

 

[markjay]

I don't have an opinion on this as such... just to say that the repatriation of the soldier is not out of the ordinary and in fact it is standard procedure worldwide.

No country would willingly agree to have its soldiers tried by foreign local civilian courts, the UK and EU included. There have been quite a few such cases, including the Italian soldiers in Somalia etc.

 

[Red C220]

I urge caution on this thread.

These soldiers are serving in a war zone, none of us (except the serving soldiers that post here) will have the first idea of what the daily lives of these people are like.

I am averse to applying common law (or common decency for that matter) to anything that happens in a war zone, we cannot comprehend what goes through these peoples mind.

 

[mobeyone]

I urge caution on this thread.

These soldiers are serving in a war zone, none of us (except the serving soldiers that post here) will have the first idea of what the daily lives of these people are like.

I am averse to applying common law (or common decency for that matter) to anything that happens in a war zone, we cannot comprehend what goes through these peoples mind.

Hear what you are saying and I agree but surely that does not give any soldier an excuse for what they do.

No one under any circumstances should be able to do what he has done and it's why I have posted the question as this is not even raising any kind of discussion.

If we cannot apply common sense or law to soldiers then the worship and idolising of soldiers has to be questioned when atrocities like this happen, cannot be seen to only have it one way.

Soldiers sign up for the job knowing the risks involved, if they are not able to cope with the extreme pressures of war, they should not serve.

My friend is a sergeant who was based in Afghan and I am glad to say he will be finishing soon.

Why caution? Surely the actions of serving soldiers should be both celebrated and condemned where applicable?

 

[Red C220]

Why caution? Surely the actions of serving soldiers should be both celebrated and condemned where applicable?

This is one of those occassions where unless you've lived it, you have no right to comment.

I make that statement with some thought.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Hear what you are saying and I agree but surely that does not give any soldier an excuse for what they do.

No one under any circumstances should be able to do what he has done and it's why I have posted the question as this is not even raising any kind of discussion.

If we cannot apply common sense or law to soldiers then the worship and idolising of soldiers has to be questioned when atrocities like this happen, cannot be seen to only have it one way.

Soldiers sign up for the job knowing the risks involved, if they are not able to cope with the extreme pressures of war, they should not serve.

My friend is a sergeant who was based in Afghan and I am glad to say he will be finishing soon.

Why caution? Surely the actions of serving soldiers should be both celebrated and condemned where applicable?

With all due respect, I think you're being very flippant and disrespectful towards a life or death career and until you've been in their shoes I really don't see how you can comment on the stress of being a soldier.

It's not the soldiers you should be aiming for, it's the 'leaders' that send these young men to war. Have a listen to 'War pigs' by Black Sabbath; it pretty much covers everything.

 

[mobeyone]

So, what we are saying is that it's ok for a soldier to commit acts of this nature due to the unique position they find themselves in?

How does that translate to a suicide bomber? Who also has watched family, friends etc be killed? Is that any different?

I am not being disrespectful here, simply trying to make sense of how something like this is accepted but other actions are not.

Or am I being flippant? Really?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

So, what we are saying is that it's ok for a soldier to commit acts of this nature due to the unique position they find themselves in?

How does that translate to a suicide bomber? Who also has watched family, friends etc be killed? Is that any different?

I am not being disrespectful here, simply trying to make sense of how something like this is accepted but other actions are not.

Or am I being flippant? Really?

I'm not trying to justify what this soldier did, or what other soldiers do for that matter, I'm saying that you seem to be making this out to be a black & white situation, when it's my opinion that it's not.

 

[mobeyone]

.

It's not the soldiers you should be aiming for, it's the 'leaders' that send these young men to war. Have a listen to 'War pigs' by Black Sabbath; it pretty much covers everything.

I'm not, it's the actions of a soldier which at the moment are being accepted as being part and parcel of war and something we should accept?

I could not even begin to imagine what I would feel or do in a situation where my family was butchered and burnt by those there to protect.

I am anti war and hate what the leaders of the free world have done today, soldiers are sadly pawns in this as are you and I.

 

[markjay]

Explaining something is not the same as justifying it.

 

[mobeyone]

I'm not trying to justify what this soldier did, or what other soldiers do for that matter, I'm saying that you seem to be making this out to be a black & white situation, when it's my opinion that it's not.

Occums razor? Maybe there is no answer, no right or wrong? But I cannot ignore this, the ramifications are huge yet trivialised.

 

[mobeyone]

Explaining something is not the same as justifying it.

Neither is ignoring it.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Occums razor? Maybe there is no answer, no right or wrong? But I cannot ignore this, the ramifications are huge yet trivialised.

I'm not saying to ignore it, just look at the My Lai massacre in Vietnam as an example of a cover-up.

All I'm saying is, my fire would be reserved for those in charge.

The only real answer is no more war, which both you and I know will never happen in our lifetimes, I'm afraid.

 

[mobeyone]

I'm not saying to ignore it, just look at the My Lai massacre in Vietnam as an example of a cover-up.

All I'm saying is, my fire would be reserved for those in charge.

The only real answer is no more war, which both you and I know will never happen in our lifetimes, I'm afraid.

totally agree and I fear this will only escalate the problems frontline soldiers have and the communities they are protecting.

Where does it end? And is there ever really a winner?

 

[WOODYTHEWISE]

Taking the Queens shilling is something that should not be done lightly. It is true that becoming a soldier (or a member of the Armed Forces)may mean that you may be called upon to fight/ kill other people, and risk being killed/ injured yourself. Understanding this, and being prepared to do it is no guarantee that come the hour, you will do what is expected of you. If all goes well, as it usually does, it will be someone else that dies. Taking a life of another human being, or seeing it at close quarters is not something that sits well with 'normal' people. After all the dust settles it is then that some pay the price of what they have done or seen. If the dead contains innocents the price is yet higher. Seeing people who you know and have served with die a violent death has a very high price tag. The lucky ones carry on as normal (outwardly) the unlucky ones have a lot of problems. Mental health still has a stigma about it, if you are a service man/woman it is a lot worse. A lot of service people find it hard to return to 'normal life' others take another route and end their own life.
Out of all the soldiers who died during the Falklands war, six were the result of self inflicted injuries, AFTER the Occupying Forces had capitulated. Soldiers are normal people, subject to abnormal experiences. What happens at times is that the mind goes into overdrive, the effect it has on people differs from person to person.

 

[LTD]

Well said John.

All the conjecture cannot match the experience.

Thank you for looking after us when you did. I appreciate the freedom you guys serve to defend.

 

[Rory]

... and the courts dont seem to be in a hurry to bring this to a close ..

You think they should be bringing it to a close after a few days?