Someone not happy with their new Audi...

[Giantvanman]

Assuming this excessive oil consumption is due oil being blown past the piston rings or finding some other way into the combustion chamber via a crankcase breather/recirculator and ending up being burnt. How does that effect CO2 emissions out the exhaust? One wonders how that squares with the European emission standards extant when these cars were manufactured. Putting it another way- are those oil consumption figures which Audi find "acceptable" actually contrary to European legislation. Might be a subject worth raising in any discussions owners might have with AUDI UK or your local MEP ?
European emission standards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The arguement would run that any car manufactured after Sept 2009 would have to be Euro 5 compliant-- with certain emission figures to meet this standard. [ this is independent of any MOT test figures whereby the car will have to meet much less stringent criteria] If AUDI admit to a large proportion of their cars not meeting these manufacturing standards due to high oil consumption are they breaking European type approval legislation?

I see what you mean. As with all manufacturers, they gave a car/cars for testing to gain Type Approval for the model's life and that's when the model would also gain its Euro emission standard certification. Interesting point and very valid I would say.

 

[Bellow]

On another note.... I was always told that some oil consumption (though not that high) is actually better for the engine's longevity, and that engines that do not consume any noticeable amount of oil will suffer more wear.

''Sweetening'' the oil is the expression.

Assuming this excessive oil consumption is due oil being blown past the piston rings or finding some other way into the combustion chamber via a crankcase breather/recirculator and ending up being burnt. How does that effect CO2 emissions out the exhaust? One wonders how that squares with the European emission standards extant when these cars were manufactured. Putting it another way- are those oil consumption figures which Audi find "acceptable" actually contrary to European legislation. Might be a subject worth raising in any discussions owners might have with AUDI UK or your local MEP ?
European emission standards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The arguement would run that any car manufactured after Sept 2009 would have to be Euro 5 compliant-- with certain emission figures to meet this standard. [ this is independent of any MOT test figures whereby the car will have to meet much less stringent criteria] If AUDI admit to a large proportion of their cars not meeting these manufacturing standards due to high oil consumption are they breaking European type approval legislation?

My suspicion is that a different course of events occur.
Oil burns, consumes oxygen which the Lambda sensor detects as a rich mixture so leans off fuel. Oil has lower detonation limit than petrol so when detonation detected ECU retards ignition timing delaying expansion (cooling) which exposes the piston to greater levels of heat which will expose the oil to a greater possibility of gumming in the ring lands - the probable start of the high oil consumption. A rather vicious spiral that smart embarked upon long before Audi, and the propensity to burning exhaust valves lends credence to the theory.

 

[Crazyfool]

I think it was down to the piston ring seals, but don't quote me on that. Shame really, the 2.0T would be a fantastic engine if it wasn't so unreliable.

Every time I went to the petrol station I was filling up with oil. It was ridiculous.

 

[grober]

''Sweetening'' the oil is the expression.



My suspicion is that a different course of events occur.
Oil burns, consumes oxygen which the Lambda sensor detects as a rich mixture so leans off fuel. Oil has lower detonation limit than petrol so when detonation detected ECU retards ignition timing delaying expansion (cooling) which exposes the piston to greater levels of heat which will expose the oil to a greater possibility of gumming in the ring lands - the probable start of the high oil consumption. A rather vicious spiral that smart embarked upon long before Audi, and the propensity to burning exhaust valves lends credence to the theory.

Interesting--- that the engine management system might have sufficiently flexible parameters as "standard" to compensate for all that extra oil being burnt -- Its entirely possible I guess. It would be illuminating to see how well one of these "oil burners" [running the same software the car used for its type approval ] performed in an EU emissions test all the same.

 

[automaniaman]

Impressed by the professional graphics...

 

[Bellow]

Interesting--- that the engine management system might have sufficiently flexible parameters as "standard" to compensate for all that extra oil being burnt -- Its entirely possible I guess. It would be illuminating to see how well one of these "oil burners" [running the same software the car used for its type approval ] performed in an EU emissions test all the same.

Short and Long Term Fuel Trim make it possible I think.

 

[Crazyfool]

Oh I just had a laugh. Sitting in the pub, a TFSI has just passed us on the back of an AA flatbed. Here's my car when it broke down due to the oil issue.

 

[Benplym]

VAG have lived off their pre-2005 reputation for years; I've currently got a 2008 Passat 1.9 TDi that's thrown a conrod through the block and its that common on post 2005 cars it's unbelievable not to mention the major issues they had with the 2.0 TDI's. My brother-in-law has exactly the same car as that in the OP and he's had nothing but bother with it, he bought it at 30k miles and 3 year old. Loved the engine in my Q7 4.2 TDi though... Edit: Audi do know how to make a good looking car as well.

I'm going to steal the quote about living off their pre 2005 reputation, sooooo true it's unbelievable, a friend has just had an estimated bill of 12000 pounds to replace the whole fuel system in his 4.2 diesel q7 due to premature high pressure pump failure, they will contribute 4k as a good will gesture as it has full audi history..... Mmmmm, should be a 12k contribution if you ask me.

Apart from that the engine is the best, most addictive engine I've ever encountered, the low rpm torque is crazy. Not worth a 12 rebuild at 70k though.

 

[geraldrobins]

They seem to have a one major issue with almost every engine and knowing the engine code appears to be vital. They had a pretty massive problem with one of the 2L diesel engines stripping its oil pump drive, also things like balancer shafts going, porous heads, clutch and dual mass flywheel etc.


ETA: There's a recent post of PistonHeads from someone having the engine in his 2009 65K miles Audi A4 engine rebuilt FOC. He bought it Approved Used and it does have complete Audi history. He said he had no hassle about it, so there must be something afoot with the car in the OP (or, entirely feasible, his dealer is useless).

I can only comment on my companies experience and my own with VW diesels, but have no knowledge of the petrol units. I would consider a VAG product again and found the dealers in my location pretty good.

 

[E55BOF]

Wouldn't touch a VAG car, but that goes for all European cars; when I eventually have to get rid of the E55K I'll be looking for reliability in (full) retirement, and will buy Japanese or Korean.

I see from the blog that the dealer agreed to buy the A5 in question at full retail price. Persistence pays off.

 

[flango]

Never had a problem with any of my VAG cars some used a bit if oil but as long as it's not over 1 litre per 1000 miles nothing to worry about. Will be buying an Audi R8 this year and our A8 was bullet proof never missed a beat never needed anything except regular servicing but those 4.2 V8's are pretty decent units

 

[John]

Audi UK have not handled this well

Do they even give a flying?

They can't get away with it in the US and other places but they can over here. Wouldn't surprise me if they charged UK customers to reclaim some of their costs.

The VAG arrogance persists to the extent that I've removed the VW from dealer servicing - quite a gamble these days.

I remember visiting a VAG showroom in Chalfont Latimer I think it was, or not a million miles from Amersham anyway, back in 2005 as was considering a new Passat 170. Nosed around for about 20 minutes and all the sales people went about their business (dossing around and chatting).

Left the building without so much as a word said by anyone.

Easy to remove that option from my list...

 

[wemorgan]

If we all bought cars only based on internet feedback we'd all be driving around in 1990 Toyota Corolla.

A more serious point though, I'd be reluctant to spend £15k+ on a 3-5yr old car when lease deals are such good value. Why take the risk on a normal everyday car?

 

[Crazyfool]

If we all bought cars only based on internet feedback we'd all be driving around in 1990 Toyota Corolla.

Sounds like a plan. At least I won't have to worry about £1000 + repair bills every year!

Mind you, I'm hoping my E has sorted out that problem.

 

[grober]

If we all bought cars only based on internet feedback we'd all be driving around in 1990 Toyota Corolla.

A more serious point though, I'd be reluctant to spend £15k+ on a 3-5yr old car when lease deals are such good value. Why take the risk on a normal everyday car?

Hate to say it but proprietary car electronic complexity and precision engineered engine fuelling systems on highly stressed lower capacity engines means the three year leasing turn around begins to look increasingly attractive in predicting ownership costs in the short term----- which is precisely the direction the car manufacturers want us to go in . It may also presage a collapse in the "high end" second hand car market which eventually will effect residual values and leasing rates.

 

[Benplym]

Hate to say it but proprietary car electronic complexity and precision engineered engine fuelling systems on highly stressed lower capacity engines means the three year leasing turn around begins to look increasingly attractive in predicting ownership costs in the short term----- which is precisely the direction the car manufacturers want us to go in . It may also presage a collapse in the "high end" second hand car market which eventually will effect residual values and leasing rates.

It seems to be happening already, if I google earth my house, it's from around 5 years ago when I moved in, all my neighbours had ONE car per house and they were all bottom end 7-10 year old, average hatchbacks, if I look out now, there's 2-3 cars per house and at least one per house is no more than 3 years old. It's still the same occupants and if it was a couple it could be for different reasons but it's nearly all of them. I feel like I'm missing out on something big by owning a slightly older car

 

[geraldrobins]

It seems to be happening already, if I google earth my house, it's from around 5 years ago when I moved in, all my neighbours had ONE car per house and they were all bottom end 7-10 year old, average hatchbacks, if I look out now, there's 2-3 cars per house and at least one per house is no more than 3 years old. It's still the same occupants and if it was a couple it could be for different reasons but it's nearly all of them. I feel like I'm missing out on something big by owning a slightly older car

Yes depreciation maybe

 

[Meldrew2]

It seems to be happening already, if I google earth my house, it's from around 5 years ago when I moved in, all my neighbours had ONE car per house and they were all bottom end 7-10 year old, average hatchbacks, if I look out now, there's 2-3 cars per house and at least one per house is no more than 3 years old. It's still the same occupants and if it was a couple it could be for different reasons but it's nearly all of them. I feel like I'm missing out on something big by owning a slightly older car

Maybe pictures taken at different time of day?

First pic, people out at work, shops etc. second pic everyone home for dinner?

 

[renault12ts]

Maybe pictures taken at different time of day?

First pic, people out at work, shops etc. second pic everyone home for dinner?

Agreed...I have only one car on Google Earth 8 years ago...but I'm sure we had three then!

 

[Abb]

I feel like I'm missing out on something big by owning a slightly older car

you are not alone! Even the salesman passed comment when we recently purchased our new to us, used ML and opted to pay for it the old fashioned way, oppose to lease/finance or bank loan it. Guess it all depends with what you are comfortable with at the end of the day, and sod it to what everyone else is doing to pay for their car.