Speed Penalties to Rise -Deaths Down

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by hawk20, Nov 20, 2008.

  1. hawk20

    hawk20 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Tougher penalties for speeding and other "excessive behaviour" by motorists are to be proposed by ministers as part of a bid to cut road deaths.
    Drivers who break the speed limit by a large margin could be given six penalty points, a consultation is expected to suggest, meaning they would be banned after two offences.

    Other measures will target drink drivers and those who put lives at risk by taking to the wheel under the influence of other drugs.

    Provisional Government figures showed this month that the number of people killed on the roads in spring this year fell by 20% compared with the same period in 2007. There were 580 fatalities in April-June 2008 compared with 721 in the same three months last year, the statistics showed.
    Road Safety Minister Jim Fitzpatrick believes more can be done to cut the numbers further and will outline the proposals in a written statement to the Commons.
    They will be the subject of a three-month consultation.
     
  2. Rovinghawk

    Rovinghawk Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Did burglary, rape, murder, street crime or similar get a mention?

    RH
     
  3. OP
    OP
    hawk20

    hawk20 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    No, no. Dealing with those does not generate revenue.:)
     
  4. Rovinghawk

    Rovinghawk Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Also, if they reduce drink-drive limits to match europe, will they reduce the penalties to match too?

    I have zero sympathy for drink-drivers but I also dislike selecting only the comparisons that suit the interested party.

    RH
     
  5. bigbobs cl

    bigbobs cl Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Don`t be silly, that would involve doing some work instead of just stiing at the side of the road.Traffic is such an easy way of getting figures up, 35 in a 30, crime commited, flashed by camera, crime solved, just helps statistics.

    Bob
     
  6. Nik_Endeavour

    Nik_Endeavour Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    While I agreed that there are some idiots I am very much petrified by the prospect of "everybody grassing everybody". I have had the misfortune to live in a communist country before 1990 where people were encouraged (asked) under an infamous act (Agitation and Propaganda Act) where people would report somebody for no reason (or maybe for a petty dislike).

    I never bother to criticise the goverment on forums but thank you Gordon "Stalin" Brown.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7738919.stm
     
  7. CE230

    CE230 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    So the deaths on the road are still around the 3,000 they were before they introduced the revenue machines yet they still want to rape the motorist.:devil:
     
  8. UnMarked

    UnMarked Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I understand the 'large margin' will be around speed limit + 30mph.

    It would seem the same minimum penalties will remain (12 month ban + fine)

    Yawn...:rolleyes: it's nothing to do with crime figures - I think the relevant word you quote here is crime. Motoring offences are not recorded as crimes therefore they're not used in Government statistics.

    Mark
     
  9. chord

    chord Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Easier to blame everything on speeding. If they said it was down to poor driving, then they would have to do something about it, which would mean more police no the roads. Unfortunately this costs money, so it's brushed under the carpet and speed becomes the root of all evil.
     
  10. Rovinghawk

    Rovinghawk Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Possibly. Then, over a period of time, it will slowly be eroded 'for our safety'. There are many examples of margin creep.

    So same penalty for less offence? But it's for 'our safety', so what 'right-thinking' person could see any harm?

    So let's replace 'crime' with 'offence'- everything he said is suddenly relevant. It's about revenue, it's about diverting attention from 'real' crime; no burglars, but thousands of people who've harmed nobody.

    RH
     
  11. Rovinghawk

    Rovinghawk Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Also I note use of the word WILL. So much for consultation- it appears to be a done deal.

    The vagueness of the word AROUND also bothers me- is 25mph AROUND 30?
    Is 20mph? What about 10mph?

    RH

    ps- According to the Telegraph it's already down to 20mph. I didn't realise it would creep so much so fast.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2008
  12. Mr E

    Mr E Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Lies, damned lies and statistics......

    To play devil's advocate :devil: - the number of miles driven in the UK has increased by about 20% over the last 18 years. If the number of deaths on the road has remained roughly constant, then the death rate expressed in driven miles per death has fallen.

    Both facts are true....and can be spun accordingly. The problems is a lack of analysis in the reduction of accidents per mile driven.
     
  13. UnMarked

    UnMarked Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    RH - I have replied to some of the posts on this thread with information I know to be true - i.e. answering the questions posed. Seeing as this seems to be going along a similar route to several other posts in the past few months I am now going to return whence I came :)
     
  14. Rovinghawk

    Rovinghawk Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Keeping the Devil's advocate theme, how many of these are attributable to safer cars?

    RH
     
  15. Mr E

    Mr E Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Part of the consultation has also included a reduction in penalty for "minor" infringement - say 2 points and £30 for 35 in 30
     
  16. Rovinghawk

    Rovinghawk Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Could you confirm whether it's a done deal despite the suggestion of a consultation period?

    RH
     
  17. Mr E

    Mr E Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Exactly - although a sizable portion of the research body suggests that increased passive safety features in cars actually increases the accident rate because of a false sense of safety in the eyes of the driver. There is also evidence that accident occur at higher speeds and so the consequences override the safety features.

    See what I mean - it's an incredibly complex area and anyone can cherry-pick the stats to prove whatever point they want. Funnily enough, some of the best research in this area is done by MB who do very detailed analysis of accidents to occur with MB cars in a certain radius of their research centre.

    Most of the time research is unavailable because of the time the analysis would take on site. We whinge now when the road is closed due to a serious accident, but you can't get decent results when the locus is disturbed.
     
  18. raymont

    raymont Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    According to the BBC excessive means 20mph.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7738919.stm

    If all speedlimits were appropriately set at 30, 40 and so on, (which they're clearly not, as I've said before I know some 50 limits which should be lower and vice versa) then 50+ in a 30 would indeed appear to be excessive.

    But the notion that 90 on a motorway is in some way comparable to 50 in a 30 is ridiculous. Esp when the unofficial motorway limit seems to be 80 to 85.

    Assume all of this is justified on the premise that speed is the major cause of injuries / deaths. Wasn't it Goebells who said something along the lines of ' if you keep repeating a lie long enoght people will come to believe it'.

    (Other examples, recession entirely the fault of people otside this country, best placed to weather the downturn).

    I don't think its about money or clear up rates and so in. So what is it? Do these people actually believe what they are doing makes sense? I suspect not. I think it has more to do with need to be seen to be doing something and this is just an easy thing to do.
     
  19. LeighW

    LeighW Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    According to Sky News (so may or may not be true), it's six points for above 50 in a 30, which I have no problem with, but also above 90 in a 70. Now, 90 on a lightly trafficked motorway in good conditions is not IMO dangerous, and does not deserve 6 points. :mad:
     
  20. Benzowner

    Benzowner Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    With respect, don't you consider speeding poor driving, I do. We all fail to see the solution, why do we speed? If we didn't, no revenue. So although you may call them revenue earners, it is our own faults we keep paying. Most cars, as far as I know have a brake pedal, maybe we should use it more. Again, there are certain sectors who are up in arms over the new proposals, who if they abide by the law, the proposals will have no effect on them, it does make you wonder:D
     

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