Speeding in a 30

JohnDeere8530

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I received a letter saying that I broke a 30mph speed limit by 6mph, ie 36mph in 30 limit

The picture unfortunately was taken from the rear of the car so the driver could not be recognised. The car is a pool car for my company so it could be one of 6 people.

I know a 100% it was not me as the day in question was 01/07, which was when I was at the festival of speed. Obviously my ticket to FOS does not actually prove I actually went there :(

I explained this to the police who are uninterested, they say it is a matter for the courts. What should I do, just take the 60 fine and 3 point which is no big deal to me as I have clean license and the NFU are not worried about a speeding fine in a 30 (according to them) or should I fight it as I am 100% in the right.

If so how should I fight it. I know strictly speaking I should keep records of who drives what car, I am guilty of failing here :(
 

crockers

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Think you have to prove who WAS driving to prove you WEREN'T. The courts would have expected you to keep a log of who has use of the car.

Do you have your employees diaries as to whom was out in the car that day? Did anyone fill it with fuel? If so do they have a receipt they submitted in their expenses.

Or you could.........ask them.
 

Scott_F

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The Police are always uninterested in these situations. Their systems are set up to administer NIP's, harvest the cash from those who pay up and hand everyone else over to the Magistrates asap.

But why be bullied into taking the rap for something that you know you didn't do ?

Explain in the relevant paperwork that it is a pool car and that it could have been any number of people who were driving. If necessary provide a list of these people with proof of their insurance to drive the car and let the Police / Courts decide. Your FOS visit doesn't exonerate you but may help sway the final decision.
 

SPX

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Either you do know who was driving, or the person that was driving will remember.

Using times, dates and location it shouldn't take too much to work out who it was, I think what you are fishing for is has the law changed from when people used to pull this trick to get away with it.

A couple of my friends have tried this 'excuse' and from what I gather, because of all the 'I can't remember who was driving, guv', the registered keeper is automatically taken to be the one who was driving. Otherwise you'd have to offer up a sacrificial lamb. Usually the wife....
 

davidjpowell

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Either you do know who was driving, or the person that was driving will remember.

Using times, dates and location it shouldn't take too much to work out who it was, I think what you are fishing for is has the law changed from when people used to pull this trick to get away with it.

A couple of my friends have tried this 'excuse' and from what I gather, because of all the 'I can't remember who was driving, guv', the registered keeper is automatically taken to be the one who was driving. Otherwise you'd have to offer up a sacrificial lamb. Usually the wife....
People have gone to jail for the sacrifical lamb route. I think all you could do is to be honest, confirm that it was not yourself driving and provide details of all of the drivers who may have been doing so.

I seem to recall something as Sweetpee says that it falls back to registered keeper anyway... But at least you are being honest.
 

Mr E

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The court expects the company to keep an accurate record of who uses the pool car and when (probably also required by HMRC to show that there is no private usage of the pool car). Often if the company has not kept records and has no good reason for doing so, then the company is fined for failing to identify the driver. If the company can demonstrate that it has a process for signing out the car but this was circumvented then the court may decide that this is an adequate defense.

Providing the details of two possible drivers is not good enough for the court - you have to identify the driver or face the possibility of being done for failing to identify.

RTA Section 21 (6) is the part.
 

Benzowner

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First question, if it was a company pool car why have you been issued the summons letter? Normal course is that the registered keeper gets a letter demanding the name of the driver, this is filled in and returned then that named person receives the summons, so has your company grassed you up and passed the blame to you?

Secondly, if you appeal against this, your company will be asked for their records to establish who was the driver. If they are unable or won't comply they will be taken to court and issued with a fine and costs of about a grand, this is what they may be trying to avoid.
 

st13phil

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I know strictly speaking I should keep records of who drives what car, I am guilty of failing here :(
I take it from that sentence that you are the Registered Keeper of the car in question, which is why the NIP has come to you? Assuming that to be the case...

First thing is that you must provide a satisfactory response to the NIP within the time allowed (28 days?) or you will be on the end of a "failure to identify driver" charge which attracts 6 points, a big fine and an endorsement code MS90 that insurer's don't like one bit.

As you know for certain that it wasn't you driving, you will commit an offence if you say that it was - so don't do that.

As it's your firm you need to round up the six possible drivers and get whoever it was to 'fess up. You then nominate whoever it was on the NIP and send it back. They'll then get their own NIP to deal with. FWIW, 36 in a 30 will almost certainly result in a Speed Awareness Course (as long as they haven't been naughty in the last three years) so there won't be points on their licence. If no one 'fesses up then you have a potential problem as you have failed to keep records but cross that bridge only if you have to.

Take a look over at PePiPoo where there's lots of good advice about what your responsibilities are in circumstances like this.
 

flango

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Try and avoid the charge of failure to keep records the fine for that will be a lot larger than £60 and 3 points. You need to ask who was driving and if no one owns up, then I would take the hit myself and implement a system where pool cars are signed out just like hire and courtesy cars. The last thing you want is an investigation into your policies and procedures as once they start digging they don't stop. So £60 and 3 points might sound harsh but is peanuts compared to what an investigation could cost you.
 

Dieselman

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It would be interesting to hear from JohnDeere what happened in his case?
 

Spinal

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I presume he just took the points...
 

Dieselman

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I presume he just took the points...
More likely, He got the actual driver to take the hit. I don't believe He didn't know who would be driving that car on that day.
 

stevieb15

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More likely, He got the actual driver to take the hit. I don't believe He didn't know who would be driving that car on that day.
We have upto 12 vans, 2 7.5 tonners, 2 pickups and a pool car, 5 vans are out every day, often both pickups, sometimes the pool car, often 1 of my own also, frankly I haven't a clue who is driving them all at any one time and couldn't afford the time and cost to keep a record.
Every so often we take the hit as a company, costs about £750 a time.
 

Dieselman

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We have upto 12 vans, 2 7.5 tonners, 2 pickups and a pool car, 5 vans are out every day, often both pickups, sometimes the pool car, often 1 of my own also, frankly I haven't a clue who is driving them all at any one time and couldn't afford the time and cost to keep a record.
Every so often we take the hit as a company, costs about £750 a time.
Quality housekeeping...

Would you know who had been driving if one of them was involved in a hit and run at a Zebra crossing, leaving 2 dead and 1 injured?

Maybe you would think the prison term was worth it for the speeding conviction dodgings.
 
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stevieb15

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Merry Christmas DM
You miss the point, we/I don't know and say so, therefore I'm honest and not attempting to pervert the course of justice.
If there was a serious accident I expect we could drill down and find out but I'm not going to waste any more of my life in bureaucracy.
To some it probably appears poor housekeeping, I'm much more interested in keeping 60 people employed in this recession whilst the state places more and more obstacles in my way and extracts increasing levys seemingly monthly.
 

Dieselman

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we/I don't know and say so, therefore I'm honest and not attempting to pervert the course of justice.
It was going OK until this bit...
If there was a serious accident I expect we could drill down and find out but I'm not going to waste any more of my life in bureaucracy.
Then it all went wrong....:eek:

You either do know or don't know and I'm sure it's the latter. ;)
 

stevieb15

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You're correct, if we know we say so.
We always know with the pickups and cars, that's easy, but the vans go out each day with 3 erector/drivers, it's very difficult for them to always say with certainty who was driving at a precise point and time.
 

Ponton-Jetronic

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I experienced a '' flash '' as I drove along an unfamiliar stretch of road 2 weeks ago. How long does it take any notice or letter to arrive, as I can only imagine that the flash came from a speed camera.?
 

Dieselman

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I experienced a '' flash '' as I drove along an unfamiliar stretch of road 2 weeks ago. How long does it take any notice or letter to arrive, as I can only imagine that the flash came from a speed camera.?
14 days maximum in normal circumstances.

Possibly the personal Christmas card the Cheif Constable is sending you is stuck in the post.
 

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