Speeding

[Deleted member 6183]

I had a letter from the police asking me who was driving my car as I was caught on camera at 68 in a 50 zone on the Severn Bridge, just before the tolls westbound.
I'm a bit annoyed as I genuinley thought I was OK, didn't notice the 50mph signs, I was driving very conservatively on a Sunday morning and the road was dead quiet.
The query is this:

I've been advised to challenge the conviction as the road is owned by a private company, French I believe. Any thought on whether this is likely to suceed? I'll not deny I was driving or that I was speeding, basically honest but if I can avoid the fine and another 3 points I'll try it.

Thanks

 

[AJTHOMAS]

Not a chance...

The offence of exceeding the posted speed limt would be prosecuted by the british police independent of who owned or maintains a stretch of public road.

Were you offered an 'education course' and hefty fine instead of points on your licence ? Can you apply for this option or is it only offered if you only 'slightly' exceed the limits ?

 

[glojo]

Good point, although I reckon your onto a looser. You were speeding on a highway... The M4?

The bridge MIGHT be owned by a French company, but I doubt thet own the highway that actually goes over the bridge?

Hows that for gobble de gook (just had my evening medication).


Section 328(2). Meaning of "highway"

(2) Where a highway passes over a bridge or through a tunnel, that bridge or tunnel is to be taken for the purposes of this Act to be a part of the highway.

******************************************

The Hamilton's a family renowned for their honesty, I believe simply admitted to saying it could have been either person driving.

I think these type of speed limits are a complete ass. If there were men working close to the cones then yes, I understand them, but we have country lanes that are regularly used by pedestrians, horses and cattle that cross from one field to another. These lanes have a 60mph speed limit with NO camera's.

John

 

[blassberg]

what speed did you think you were doing? They thought you were doing 68. Did you think you were doing around an indicated 75?

 

[COUPE FREAK]

as far as i know privately owned roads, ie, toll roads, are a different kettle of fish,, because you've paid to go on it, you can go as fast as you like, it's like paying to have a wizz round donnington race track,, dont know if theres been a test case yet in the courts,, for speeding on a toll road,, think theres one near birmingham, couple of lads i worked with passed a police car doing 170mph on it,, then slowed to 100mph,, the police car just went passed them but never stopped them,,

 

[BonzoDog]

Hopefully you are not serious

as far as i know privately owned roads, ie, toll roads, are a different kettle of fish,, because you've paid to go on it, you can go as fast as you like, it's like paying to have a wizz round donnington race track,, dont know if theres been a test case yet in the courts,, for speeding on a toll road,, think theres one near birmingham, couple of lads i worked with passed a police car doing 170mph on it,, then slowed to 100mph,, the police car just went passed them but never stopped them,,

Hopefully not many people believe this kind of thing.
Ever been on a French peage? Like the British toll roads, these are roads operated for the benefit of the public and subject to all the normal rules. It is completely immaterial who owns the road.
The speed limits are the law and there is not some sort of laddish right to cheat them. If the speed limit is 70 what is the problem in doing 68; if it is 50, why not do 48?
It's like a wizz (whizz) round Donnington. I don't know Donnington but I have watched people whizzing around Nurburgring a few times and thank goodness many of these incompetents learn a hard lesson. How can anybody these days think of a modern road as a race track.?

 

[COUPE FREAK]

i'm not saying believe it,, i said "as far as i know"

france is france,, england is england,, completley different,,

cant see your point with the "laddish right" bit,

or the 70mph and 68mph,

thanks very much for the spelling lesson,

did you ever stop to think the people you seen at n/burg were first timers, and why is it good for anyone to crash,,

seems to me everyone in the morning rush hour,, thinks the roads are a race track,,

 

[DieselE]

I had a letter from the police asking me who was driving my car as I was caught on camera at 68 in a 50 zone on the Severn Bridge, just before the tolls westbound.
I'm a bit annoyed as I genuinley thought I was OK, didn't notice the 50mph signs, I was driving very conservatively on a Sunday morning and the road was dead quiet.

The toll booths are on the Welsh side of the bridge on the West bound carriageway nearly a mile from the bridge itself. The 50 limit is on the approach to the tolls (there are similar ones on the M6 toll). The limit was imposed after accidents/incidents resulting from drivers approaching the booths at 70 mile/h fumbling in their pockets for toll fees.

The "Safety Camera" van sits on a bridge over the M4 just off from the direct line of site. I'm sure you will not be over surprised to learn that the toll booths are within the area covered by Gwent police, that well known motorist friendly organisation.

The issue is not how conservatively you were driving but how late you left your slowing up. IMHO you're on a loser with this one. Swallow hard and pay up.

 

[glojo]

as far as i know privately owned roads, ie, toll roads, are a different kettle of fish,,

Hi Coupe Freak,
You and I are definitely on a roll. A private, private road i.e. A road where the public does not have readily available access might well not have speed limits, but your examples are terribly flawed. I have given the legal definition for this particular case, and for your example I will not cite France, I will instead nominate the M6 Toll road. Let your friends when passing Police Patrol vehicles drive flat out. It is always 'possible' to overtake a Police vehicle at high speed and not get stopped, that does not set a blanket precedent?

Please don't think I am having a go at you, it is pure coincidence that we have disagreed on two interesting points that were posted close together.

John the arguementative

 

[DieselE]

as far as i know privately owned roads, ie, toll roads, are a different kettle of fish,, because you've paid to go on it, you can go as fast as you like, it's like paying to have a wizz round donnington race track,, dont know if theres been a test case yet in the courts,, for speeding on a toll road,, think theres one near birmingham, couple of lads i worked with passed a police car doing 170mph on it,, then slowed to 100mph,, the police car just went passed them but never stopped them,,

When the M6 Toll opened, the local news was full of items reporting that whilst it was privately owned it would be policed in the normal way and all the normal laws applied.

There has also been one well reported case of a police superintendent being booked for speeding on the toll road at somewhere around 100 mile/h having been caught by a police speed trap.

Mind you police cars on the M6 toll are a very rare sight. Your mates were unlucky to see one and lucky the crew had their minds on something else.

Peter

 

[imadoofus]

as far as i know privately owned roads, ie, toll roads, are a different kettle of fish,, because you've paid to go on it, you can go as fast as you like, it's like paying to have a wizz round donnington race track,, dont know if theres been a test case yet in the courts,, for speeding on a toll road,, think theres one near birmingham, couple of lads i worked with passed a police car doing 170mph on it,, then slowed to 100mph,, the police car just went passed them but never stopped them,,

By paying to use a toll road, you're entering into a contract with the owner. If you look at the small print of that contract (which you will most likely not have done, but which will be freely available to you), you'll find they have specified how you should use their road, and that will extend to speed limits.

Being allowed to behave how the heck you want on a toll road is a big steaming urban myth. Are you suggesting that you can cruise down the M6T without a licence because it's private land?

You can't. It may be privately owned, but the vagiaries of the law concerning public use, and the agreements in place between the owners and the government are more complex than we can fathom. Suffice to say, they've thought of this. There is no loophole.

PJ

 

[glojo]

You can't. It may be privately owned, but the vagiaries of the law concerning public use, and the agreements in place between the owners and the government are more complex than we can fathom. Suffice to say, they've thought of this. There is no loophole.

PJ

Totally agree,
I believe it used to be if the public had general access whether for payment or not. For major roads, dual carriageways, or motorways..... If it has a classification i.e. A38, M4, M6T or whatever then I would treat it as a 'location' (just trying to be tactful) where you must comply with the laws relating to driving.

Motor taxation is a completely different issue and we all except there are public roads that are unadopted.

John

 

[COUPE FREAK]

thanks,, i know a bit more now,,

only relating what i've been told, not first-hand experience,,

thought it was too good to be true,, never mind,,

 

[DC_insider]

Totally agree,
I believe it used to be in the public had general access whether for payment or not. For major roads, dual carriageways, or motorways..... If it has a classification i.e. A38, M4, M6T or whatever then I would treat it as a 'location' (just trying to be tactful) where you must comply with the laws relating to driving.

You are correct - if a road can be accessed by the public (a public road, a toll road, a private road or even Tesco's car park) then the Road Traffic Act applies.

In theory you can be caught for drink driving if you are over the limit whilst driving on private land (if the private land can be driven directly on to by a member of the public).

 

[glojo]

In theory you can be caught for drink driving if you are over the limit whilst driving on private land (if the private land can be driven directly on to by a member of the public).

In practice there has been any number of convictions where the driver was in the pub car park. There has been battles over pub closing times but I would assume that has long since been kicked into touch.

John

 

[jeremytaylor]

I'll not deny I was driving or that I was speeding, basically honest but if I can avoid the fine and another 3 points I'll try it.

I think your best bet is on a technicality - i.e. was the Notice served in time? (14 days IIRC?) Are the details correct?

Alternatively was 'someone else' driving (a friend with a clean licence, a visiting tourist with a foreign licence, etc.), but be warned some scamera vans take frontal photos, can enlarge and identify the driver. There have been prosecutions on this.

Ask to see the photo. There have been cases where they haven't done this in time and prosecutions have failed.

I'm sure there's a site out there somewhere with full answers on these points.

 

[scumbag]

just for those who may be under private land illusions. even if you drive on private land, you must find out if they have local By-Laws that apply. you see, i get the charge up and down on private land. and we have speed limits. 10mph and 30mph and both are halved when the visibilty is seriously reduced. we often get builders etc thinking they can do as they please as its private land. it is, but it isnt theirs. It is ours tho, and we can do as we please. but we have to lead by example. does mean red deisel tho! 7p a litre too! and just in case anyone isnt jealous enough, a small section of HM Customs and Revenue documentation allows me to charge about on the public highway with it too.

great that!

I mite add, the shogun has some interesting Blue lights in case people are thinking i get away with things. Its not a privilge. just a job. and i need a change!

 

[Ian B Walker]

I mite add, the shogun has some interesting Blue lights in case people are thinking i get away with things. Its not a privilge. just a job. and i need a change!

Errr Blue Lights? Does that mean, well you know, "Eveni All"?

 

[glojo]

just for those who may be under private land illusions. even if you drive on private land, you must find out if they have local By-Laws that apply. you see, i get the charge up and down on private land. and we have speed limits. 10mph and 30mph and both are halved when the visibilty is seriously reduced. we often get builders etc thinking they can do as they please as its private land. it is, but it isnt theirs. It is ours tho, and we can do as we please. but we have to lead by example. does mean red deisel tho! 7p a litre too! and just in case anyone isnt jealous enough, a small section of HM Customs and Revenue documentation allows me to charge about on the public highway with it too.

great that!

I mite add, the shogun has some interesting Blue lights in case people are thinking i get away with things. Its not a privilge. just a job. and i need a change!

I'm slightly confused?? (as usual)

The speed limits you have imposed on PRIVATE LAND??? Are these legally binding. If so is it proper private land where you REGULARLY close it off either daily or weekly? NOT once a year for an hour

Are you using red diesel on the public highway for long journeys?

Regards,
John

 

[Dieselman]

I'm slightly confused?? (as usual)

The speed limits you have imposed on PRIVATE LAND??? Are these legally binding. If so is it proper private land where you REGULARLY close it off either daily or weekly? NOT once a year for an hour

Are you using red diesel on the public highway for long journeys?

Regards,
John

IIRC the land is airside of an airport so is what you would call closed to the public.