Stalingrad

Discussion in 'OT (OFF Topic) Forums' started by markjay, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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  2. MancMike

    MancMike New Member

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    Don't let it be said you spread less happiness than Katrina & The Waves. :bannana:
     
  3. Peter103

    Peter103 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Dreadful times.
     
  4. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    This particular documentary is about new material found in archives which provides a different view to the traditional narrative. Plus interviews with people who served on both sides.

    It's not about the sufferings of the civilian population as such, although it is mentioned.
     
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    markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    They did say that the civilian death toll was higher than Hiroshima and Nagaski combined... so perhaps not quite akin to Gaza, Mosul, etc - possibly more like Hamburg and Dersden in terms of the scale of the carnage.
     
  7. moonloops

    moonloops MB Club Veteran

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    1 Million Russians killed by Russians in WW2
     
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    markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    Yes, the documentary also covers the role of the NKVD, who they say did a better job at taking-out Red Army troops than the German did. The NKVD killed an estimated 10,000 Russian soldiers in the battle of Stalingrad alone. At Stalin's orders, I should add.

    They also claim that the City of Stanlingrad had no particular strategic importance in itself, and much of the fierce fighting was due to both Hitler and Stalin making a point regarding a city that bears the Russian leader's name. Its importance was symbolic; and changing the name from Volgograd to Stalingrad proved detrimental for the city's civilian population.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  9. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Stalingrads strategic significance derived from its position the Volga. Indeed without military re-supply from the east bank the Russians would have succcumbed fairly quickly . Basically they were never completely surrounded which eventually is what happened to the Germans forcing their surrender.
     
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    markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    The Germans would have done well to avoid the city and go around it, as they did in other places. The besieged Red Army would have eventually surrendered when supplies ran out.

    And Stalin could have abandoned the City altogether (very few civilians remained anyway following the heavy aerial bombardment campaign that preceeded the ground attack, the documentary estimates their number as little as 15,000) and establish a defensive line behind the Eastern bank of the Volga.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  11. Peter103

    Peter103 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I've always thought it was the severe Russian winter that caught out Hitlers army, as they were ill prepared for such extreme weather, and accelerated their defeat, maybe this did play a part. :dk:
     
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    markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    The main point raised in this documentary is that based on interviews with soldiers and officers who fought on both sides, and newly released documents, the Russians made some fatal strategic mistakes and were only saved by the Germans' military miscalculations (sending in infantry without armoured cover etc) and General Winter.

    This is in contrast to the official post-War Russian version of events, portraying Stalin as a genius master planner.
     
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  13. Dryce

    Dryce MB Club Veteran

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    The winter and some debatable strategic choices definitely didn't help.

    The arithmetic of geography and numbers was what left them them undone. Their one chance was lost after they failed to take Moscow and the Soviet government did not collapse.

    The problem with geography was the logistical stretch and the sheer breadth of the front.
     
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