State Pension / benefits for someone who hasnt worked ?

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tjamesbo

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I have a brother who is Single ( believed divorced ) ,was an alcoholic supposedly reformed but cant be sure, who currently lives a strange almost walter mitty existence hes mid to late 50's and has never worked since he was late 20's or early 30's He lives in a house which is in a Bare Trust where my sister is a trustee as he is now not far away from state pension age I was wondering how he was going to survive once he reaches 66 or whatever his qualifying age is as to my knowledge he certainly wouldnt qualify for a full state pension on the basis of working and NI contributions and may not even qualify for any reduced / part one as he probably has single number or minimal qualifying years
We can never get the truth from him so its unclear if he's currently claiming benefits or not as he used to rely on regular handouts from my parents ( both deceased now ) and as his house is in a Bare Trust technically he has no assets ( but can request and get ownership of the property from the trust at any time- see terms of a Bare Trust )
He liked to stay " off Radar " so the question is when he reaches 66 or 67 etc and he doesnt qualify for any worthwhile state pension will he be able to claim any social security benefits ? either starting afresh or continuing his current claim (if he is claiming , which i presume he must be but cant be sure )
Any Idea Folks ?
Thanks
Boyd
 
would that be unemployment benefit or social security? are they both the same thing ? you can tell I've had a cossetted / lucky life
dont know a thing about them , I'm lucky to be able to say that
 
I'm not an expert here but from my understanding...

Unemployment benefit and Social Security are the same thing. It used to be the Department for Social Security which changed to the Department for Work and Pensions in the early noughties.

If he is claiming unemployment benefit, then his "stamp" is paid which is what you need to keep paying to qualify the state pension.

You have to have paid so many of them to qualify which you normally pay through NI when you are working.

I would have thought if he didn't qualify for a state pension, technically he still has to work and if he can't get a job, he will entitled to Jobseeker's allowance (the current term for it).

You have to rock up to the Job Centre regularly and demonstrate you are looking for work though or at least I had to whenever I've had to claim it from being made redundant or moving home.
 
He could be entitled to a basic state pension or pip. He could also get some pensioners tax credit.
 
I don't know what he'll be entitled to when he reaches the State Pension Age (which will probably be 67, if he's in his early to mid 50s), but he won't be able to claim any Job Keepers Allowance after he reached that age.

His Stare Pension Age will depend on when he was born, presumably you know his DOB?

 
No doubt there will be benefits and things to top up his pension, taking it above that of the hard working peoples entitlement 🍇🤢

Pension credit, well I never, for those who couldn’t be bothered to contribute themselves... and not aimed at those that genuinely can’t.
 
And on the flip side of the coin, I know self employed people who pay much less national insurance than employees but will still get a full state pension
 
And on the flip side of the coin, I know self employed people who pay much less national insurance than employees but will still get a full state pension
Good point, and the s/e may have other tax breaks/allowances as well, but many employees have benefits built into their contract which the self employed have to provide themselves - sick pay, maternity/paternity pay, employer’s obligatory non-state pension contribution, paid holidays, etc., so it’s not all one way.
 
And on the flip side of the coin, I know self employed people who pay much less national insurance than employees but will still get a full state pension
The essence of the State pension is that it is a basic worker pension.
You pay your years of stamp and qualify for full state pension after x years.
And, of course, it was designed and implemented after the War when average lifespan was literally 65.
Some collected, but just as many literally weren't expected to collect a pension at all. Nada, nothing.

Seventy-odd years on, in 2019, male life expectancy was a full 15 years longer, with "Healthy Life Expectancy" now at 64, giving 16 years of "retirement" limited health. While typical working life doesn't even start at 15 any more.

Health state life expectancies, UK - Office for National Statistics
 
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but he won't be able to claim any Job Keepers Allowance after he reached that age.
Certainly not if he isn't working.

Must look into that one myself...

😁
 
Just reinforcing the point made earlier: anyone can look up their personal entitlement to State Pension online in a few minutes.

Gather his NI number and you’ll know what the State thinks his U.K. pension is worth.

(For any Americans looking at this: best finds tame European to explain the concept of a State Pension. It won’t make any sense to you otherwise.
 
Unfortunatly, those of us working through agencies get hit with 2 lots of ni because of umbrella
 
Well when I retired I got a basic state pension as I had been contracted out for years,the guy on the phone from Newcastle pension place was very concerned that I would only get £122 a week,I said thats fine,but he still sent me all the stuff for pension credit and the like,ok I had a final salary company pension and other investments,but it got me thinking just how much I had paid in to the government pension over the years I had worked,when I started to work I paid about 50p a week,of course near the end of my working life I paid the maximum,but one thing is clear the government pension is the biggest gift you will ever receive ,go on the government site and answer a couple of questions and have your NI number and it will show just how much you have paid for every year you worked,believe me it will not add up to much.
 
Can I get a refund? I won’t live long enough to claim mine. Shame I can’t transfer it to the mrs.
 
The issue with NI is that it's a very odd 'insurance policy'. The payouts are fixed and not related to your financial circumstances or to how much you paid-in. Think of a motor insurance that always pays-out a fix amount regardless of what car you have or what's the damage. The bottom line is that it's only National Insurance by name, in practice it is just a welfare tax. Nothing wrong with that, mind, but the choice of name is inexplicable....
 
Unfortunatly, those of us working through agencies get hit with 2 lots of ni because of umbrella
My wife is self-employed so pays Class 2 and Class 4 NI. When she had staff she had to deduct Class 1 contributions from their pay then add her element to the staff member’s contribution before sending it off in her role as unpaid tax collector. And of course she also had her own contributions to make. People on PAYE also effectively pay 2 lots of NI because the employer’s contribution to the employee’s NI pot doesn’t magically appear, in reality it’s taken from what the employee would have otherwise received. It’s the way it is.
 
My wife is self-employed so pays Class 2 and Class 4 NI. When she had staff she had to deduct Class 1 contributions from their pay then add her element to the staff member’s contribution before sending it off in her role as unpaid tax collector. And of course she also had her own contributions to make. People on PAYE also effectively pay 2 lots of NI because the employer’s contribution to the employee’s NI pot doesn’t magically appear, in reality it’s taken from what the employee would have otherwise received. It’s the way it is.


Just try and work out how much of the cost of an employee goes back to the government....

Employee's Income tax, employee's and employer's NI, are only the start... there's 20% VAT on most of the money spent, with some of it incurring additional Duty. And after death, there another 40% (potentially) going back to the government.... Government is a business, and their business model is the Company Store.... :D
 

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