Steering light on W212... mechanical or electrical???

[gIzzE]

I have just swapped my W211 E320cdi avantgarde estate for a W212 avantgarde estate.

So far not liking the W212 as much if I am honest with myself.

The steering is the thing that is really letting it down. I don't have the 'direct steering' option on my car, I have the variable ratio steering.
I understand it is to help keep the drive more relaxed whilst sitting in the fast lane, less corrections as there is a bit more movement on the wheel without doing too much to the wheels underneath?

But the problem I have is there is too much play, I have to move the wheel to the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock position to get the car to go round the slightest of bends.
This would probably be OK in the W211 as I could do that with my arm remaining on the armrest, but in this car due to the seating and steering wheel position I have to take my arm off and this starts to get quite tiring.

Plus when you go into a long bend that tightens I think it is quite dangerous as the turn in is not consistent, so you have to be really careful not to turn the wheel too far, the further you turn it the quicker the car turns in.
All very strange.


I have just driven an Sport with the 'direct steering' option and this is so much nicer, you can feel what is going on plus on the motorway only small corrections, and round town you don't have to give the wheel a 180° turn to go round small corners.


So my question is....


is this an electrical thing that can be coded out or is it a variable steering column?

I am going to have to change it as I hate it, just hoping it is possible.

 

[st4]

I can't help you but thanks for posting about the steering. I thought the 350AG got the direct control steering. I've only driven a sport and my only concern was its steering was too light?

My first port of call would be a trip to the dealers and enquire?

 

[gIzzE]

I would, but I think I will get the standard 'nothing you can do.' response.

 

[st13phil]

Plus when you go into a long bend that tightens I think it is quite dangerous as the turn in is not consistent, so you have to be really careful not to turn the wheel too far, the further you turn it the quicker the car turns in.
All very strange.

What you've described - i.e. the rack "speeding up" the further you turn the wheel from the straight ahead position - is what Direct Steering does; if your car is a V6 then it does have Direct Steering, even as an Avantgarde.

FWIW, my wife's SLK350 has Direct Steering and when I had my W204 with plain old Parameter Steering it certainly felt a little odd driving the SLK for the first couple of miles, but then I'd adjust to the different steering response and I'd be fine. Do you also drive another car without a variable ratio rack?

AFAIK, the rack is electro-hydraulic and the pump only runs when their is demand for assistance. The Direct Steering variable ratio bit (not variable assistance) is totally mechanical, so it's not possible to change it without swapping parts.

 

[elisetype25]

My non-direct steering S212 does not behave as you describe. Perhaps you should check your tyre pressures and then refer to dealer if the situation doesn't improve.

N.

 

[gIzzE]

It is not the direct steering, the previous owner ticked the option for Parameter steering, well it has it listed on the advert anyway, not checked my options from the VIN though, so could be wrong.

Surely direct steering a constant ratio rack?
Far more sporty feeling than a variable ratio.

From reading up on US sites, how they describe paramter steering is exactly how I have described it, and I don't like it.

I will haver to get used to it I guess.

 

[Dieselman]

From reading up on US sites, how they describe paramter steering is exactly how I have described it, and I don't like it.

I will haver to get used to it I guess.

Probably. Ask Charles Morgan, He has the ultimate variable assistance steering on one of his cars.
Yours is obviously just too light for your tastes, it should be heavier around straight ahead and lighter and tighter when on more lock.

 

[st13phil]

It is not the direct steering, the previous owner ticked the option for Parameter steering, well it has it listed on the advert anyway, not checked my options from the VIN though, so could be wrong.

Surely direct steering a constant ratio rack?
Far more sporty feeling than a variable ratio.

From reading up on US sites, how they describe paramter steering is exactly how I have described it, and I don't like it.

I will haver to get used to it I guess.

No need to check the options from the VIN, it's a V6 so it 100% definitely has Direct Steering (there are no options for steering on any of the W212's). The "standard" W212 steering is only fitted to the 4-pot non-Sport cars, with Direct Steering fitted to all V6 and all Sport cars. Direct Steering has a variable ratio rack, and speed-sensitive variable assistance.

This is why I confess to being slightly baffled by your first post in which you said

I have just driven an Sport with the 'direct steering' option and this is so much nicer

My only thought is that there's something defective with your car if the steering felt in any way different

 

[st13phil]

Yours is obviously just too light for your tastes, it should be heavier around straight ahead and lighter and tighter when on more lock.

The W212 does in general have pretty light steering, but it weights up quite nicely at higher speeds and gives good levels of feedback.

 

[gIzzE]

When I said I had just driven a sport, I meant before buying this, and didn't notice the steering being an issue at all.
If I went back to it now maybe I would?

My car is definitely fitted with paramter, or it is listed on the options, I went back and checked as it seemed to be so heavily assisted I presumed some silly option had been ticked.

This is a 2010 car btw.

It says that 'fewer turns of the wheel are needed with direct steering.' .
Well I have never known a car needing such massive input to make the smallest of maneuvers.

Going around the roundabout in the 530d GT the top of the steering wheel goes down to the the 8 or 9 o'clock position, in the E350 it goes down to 6 o'clock position almost.

I have found that I notice it less when I set the wheel position up better.
They always say you should be able to rest your wrists on the top of the wheel straight out in front of you, drop the wheel low enough and close enough to do this.
When I do this it actually feels a lot nicer to drive.
One problem though, I can't actually see the instrument cluster, the cluster is just too high up! I can only tell that I am doing somewhere bewteen 30mph and 130mph, which I don't think is quite accurate enough.

I am only 5'10", but anyone who is taller would surely find it even worse?
My wife is only 5'4" and it even blocks her view too.


Anyway, I will speak to Mercedes and see what they say.

 

[st4]

When I said I had just driven a sport, I meant before buying this, and didn't notice the steering being an issue at all.
If I went back to it now maybe I would?

My car is definitely fitted with paramter, or it is listed on the options, I went back and checked as it seemed to be so heavily assisted I presumed some silly option had been ticked.

This is a 2010 car btw.

It says that 'fewer turns of the wheel are needed with direct steering.' .
Well I have never known a car needing such massive input to make the smallest of maneuvers.

Going around the roundabout in the 530d GT the top of the steering wheel goes down to the the 8 or 9 o'clock position, in the E350 it goes down to 6 o'clock position almost.

I have found that I notice it less when I set the wheel position up better.
They always say you should be able to rest your wrists on the top of the wheel straight out in front of you, drop the wheel low enough and close enough to do this.
When I do this it actually feels a lot nicer to drive.
One problem though, I can't actually see the instrument cluster, the cluster is just too high up! I can only tell that I am doing somewhere bewteen 30mph and 130mph, which I don't think is quite accurate enough.

I am only 5'10", but anyone who is taller would surely find it even worse?
My wife is only 5'4" and it even blocks her view too.


Anyway, I will speak to Mercedes and see what they say.

Yep. In order for me to sat comfortably in the 212 and have my wrists rest on the top of the wheel, the wheel blocked the indicator symbols and the speedo from 30mph roughly. I am 6ft tall. The sports cars have a thicker rim, making the issue even worse. In actual fact, I had to move the car to digital speedo mode to be able to have a speedo I could see, and as for indicators, I know how to use them so not seeing it in the display I could almost live with

Coupled to short seat sqaubs and a seat that didn't go low enough, you can see why the driving of the 212 wasn't for me, although bar this flaw, the car was excellent.

Want my advice.

Sell it or hand it back as hopefully you are in the 30days cooling off period. Get some money back and buy a cheaper 50k miles S211 or E60 BMW 530d. Or downsize into a 204 or E90. The 204 doesn't have this issue and is a really nice size of car, rides well, handles well, and has good seating etc. You know how good the E90 is.

Better still, if you don't need a wagon, get yourself into a CLS. I won't recommend an engine, but these are great cars.

 

[gIzzE]

Problem is I need an estate, and a big one.

I wouldn't want another E61 now, loved my 535d at the time, but still prefer this Merc at the moment. Just a few 'niggles' that stop it from being a perfect long termer.

If I didn't need such a big car I would definitely swap for a C250cdi sport estate.

 

[gIzzE]

.... and as for indicators, I know how to use them so not seeing it in the display I could almost live with

You know, that BMW really is calling you Steve!

 

[st4]

Problem is I need an estate, and a big one.

I wouldn't want another E61 now, loved my 535d at the time, but still prefer this Merc at the moment. Just a few 'niggles' that stop it from being a perfect long termer.

If I didn't need such a big car I would definitely swap for a C250cdi sport estate.

Im not really an E60 fan, my mate has a 545i and in every area I find the 211s better bar reliability. Fair enough if you need a large car.

Seating is a major thing (especially for a back pain sufferer) and the visibility of the instrumentation is important, never mind the fact you don't like the steering on the car. A cheap 211 and some change not suit you?

I had a BMW in a long and distant past, and it had the blasted servotronic steering which added too much resistance to the steering and made it artificially heavy. I chopped it in. Its predecessor was a delight in comparison. Sometimes, some cars just don't work for some people.

You know, that BMW really is calling you Steve!

They're awesome cars. Sadly, with all the expense of the shed, I am past the point of no return with £700 worth of Eibach Springs and Blistein Dampers getting put in, the manifold and IPS issues this year, I want to get my monies worth out of it first.

 

[gIzzE]

A cheap 211 and some change not suit you?

I just couldn't face bunging out the sort of money 3 year old S211's are fetching now, not when I just sold one that I loved, OK a bit older and 100k miles but great and a lot cheaper.
Late S211's are only a few grand cheaper than I paid for this, so although some money back in my pocket now, it would cost me more over the next 2 years or so.

They're awesome cars. Sadly, with all the expense of the shed, I am past the point of no return with £700 worth of Eibach Springs and Blistein Dampers getting put in, the manifold and IPS issues this year, I want to get my monies worth out of it first.

Totally understand.

 

[st13phil]

When I said I had just driven a sport, I meant before buying this, and didn't notice the steering being an issue at all.
If I went back to it now maybe I would?

Ahh... I understand now. My experience is that the feel of Direct Steering is more noticeable when swapping from a car that doesn't have it to one that does. Depending upon what you drove immediately prior to your test drive the difference may have been disguised to an extent; also, maybe the Sport steering wheel, which is quite chunky, altered the feel a bit too?

My car is definitely fitted with paramter, or it is listed on the options, I went back and checked as it seemed to be so heavily assisted I presumed some silly option had been ticked.

This is a 2010 car btw.

It seems that the sales material templates haven't caught up with what's actually on the cars! I've noticed that Parameter Steering is often listed as a ticked option when it's actually Direct Steering that's fitted. Here are the relevant pages from the March 2009 edition of the E-Class Saloon & Estate pricelist:

Note that Direct Steering is standard on all V6 & V8 cars. "Parameter Steering" does not appear in the options list. The 2010 and 2011 pricelists have the same information.

Regarding the seating position and relationship to the steering wheel, with most cars I find that I can set up a comfortable position quite quickly but in the W212 it took me ages to get it right. However, now that I do have it set up how I want, it's supremely comfortable - possibly the most comfortable driving position I've ever had. I'm 5'8" and found that the key to getting the position right was to set the seat slightly higher than I would normally expect to and then work from there. Once the wheel is set appropriately, this greatly improves instrument visibility too.

BTW, I know Steve keeps banging on about the seat squab in the W212 being "too short" and says that it's shorter than that on the W204, but having owned and lived with both cars I knew that wasn't the case. Here's the evidence:

C-Class 526mm:

E-Class 540mm:

The C-Class seat can be set 13mm lower than the E's though.

 

[st4]

It must be getting the seat lower in the 204 solves the issue?

 

[st13phil]

I honestly don't know. What I would say is that I have to have the squab slighty flatter in the W212 than I may do in some other cars because the front of the squab can rub on the back of my calf if I don't.

I find that in general I set the seat quite low in most cars - I'm vertically challenged due to short legs - but in the W212 the key to getting comfortable was to set it higher than I would do otherwise, and then tilt the squab a bit flatter. This allows me to sit slightly farther back and my lower legs to be a little straighter. Once I had that right, I played with the seat back angle and the wheel position until I achieved what I wanted.