Stock W204 C63 BHP differences?

[JP04WEN]

Hi All,

This is my first post here!

Last weekend I took my 2010 C63 AMG Saloon with the Performance Pack to a Rolling Road for a Power Run to see what BHP it had...

My car is totally stock and spat out 509BHP which is about 30BHP or so more than quoted from MB.

I was curious to learn if any other members have had a similar thing from a Power Run, as in, do these magnificent, hand-built engines occasionally produce more than originally quoted!

Any insight or thoughts on this would be awesome,

 

[st13phil]

As a general rule, standard AMG engines produce more power on the dyno than they are rated at.

Having said that...

Very rarely are commercial dyno's perfectly calibrated or perfectly compensated for altitude, atmospheric pressure and temperature. Also, the assumed losses in the transmission include an element of estimation so "flywheel" power figures are always a bit +/-

Bottom line is that the only worthwhile dyno comparisons are those carried out on the same dyno under the same conditions - which normally means the same day.

 

[Rich764089]

... but still a healthy output!

Welcome

 

[JP04WEN]

As a general rule, standard AMG engines produce more power on the dyno than they are rated at.

Having said that...

Very rarely are commercial dyno's perfectly calibrated or perfectly compensated for altitude, atmospheric pressure and temperature. Also, the assumed losses in the transmission include an element of estimation so "flywheel" power figures are always a bit +/-

Bottom line is that the only worthwhile dyno comparisons are those carried out on the same dyno under the same conditions - which normally means the same day.

Appreciate the insight and feedback, it was reassuring to see that after all these years no horses had escaped!

 

[Steve84N]

Have you owned it from new?

 

[JP04WEN]

Have you owned it from new?

Hi Steve, I'm the 3rd owner, the two chaps beforehand both had it for about 5-years each - completely stock according to everything I've seen about the car. Apparently these beasts with the PPP do chuck out a bit more BHP than quoted

 

[Steve84N]

The PP cars do seem to make good power but as mentioned, whether it's a true 509hp is very difficult to tell with the dyno variability and fudge factor applied.

There's still a possibility it's been remapped as that's about what they make when it's done. Very common for there to be no record and it's not something that's detectable other than by a detailed Mercedes interrogation.

Either way, you can be happy and enjoy. A simple remap (if done) isn't stressing the engine.

 

[JP04WEN]

The PP cars do seem to make good power but as mentioned, whether it's a true 509hp is very difficult to tell with the dyno variability and fudge factor applied.

There's still a possibility it's been remapped as that's about what they make when it's done. Very common for there to be no record and it's not something that's detectable other than by a detailed Mercedes interrogation.

Either way, you can be happy and enjoy. A simple remap (if done) isn't stressing the engine.

I wonder what the variance is on a dyno run? From memory, I think the chap did about 3 runs/ goes and then used the medium average from the 3 to spit out the final result. Or maybe they just enjoyed revving the nuts off the car for as much as they could

Either way they are missiles, definitely going to fit slightly wider tyres all round when the current set are finished to see what impact that has on traction

 

[Steve84N]

The variance between runs on the same dyno on the same day is usually quite small. The variance between different dynos is more notable, sometimes tens of horsepower. The assumed losses are usually a generic factor applied to many cars, when in reality each car will have different drivetrain losses.

265 on the standard 9J wheels fits no problem and gives a nice improvement. Mine mapped with 265 and a Wavetrac differential will get off the line floored from idle with minimal to no wheel spin in warm, dry conditions. There's no perceptible difference on mine before and after a remap, other than the stronger rush to the redline where the extra power is gained. Drives just as smooth as stock.

 

[Rich764089]

I doubt the variance between runs like that is so great, but as noted above variance on different days, or different equipment is great. Also some may apply (e.g.) 18% drive train losses and others 15%, so unless all variables are known comparison across different dyno graphs is relatively meaningless.

 

[JP04WEN]

Cheers Rich, I had read online about the 15% or so difference.

Either way, seeing 509BHP flash up on the screen in front of a load of lads Dynoing their Seat Leon's and Audi's did make me feel rather special, trying to leave sensibly and not sideways to show off was rather difficult, but then I remembered the cost of rubber and it was Comfort mode for sure

I doubt the variance between runs like that is so great, but as noted above variance on different days, or different equipment is great. Also some may apply (e.g.) 18% drive train losses and others 15%, so unless all variables are known comparison across different dyno graphs is relatively meaningless.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Just over 500 BHP is what I would expect on a PPP, although 509 BHP is the highest I recall reading. Without more data it’s difficult to know how much of that is due to operator adjustment, tuning or rude health. It’s certainly in the right ball park though so enjoy

PS AMG engines do tend to out perform published figures in countries with high quality high octane fuel, because the engine will take advantage of the high octane fuel and produce more power. Published figures are pitched to ensure that it can be achieved in all markets.

 

[badgx]

Welcome aboard OP, glad your enjoying your new whip

Just tailing off from original question and hope it's okay. MSL do stage2 pops, bangs and flames, pretty impressive stuff from what I've seen on their media platform. Assuming these mods require full exhaust decat to cope with the back fire, how safe is it really & drivetrain longevity? Looking at a few tasty options this year at MSL

 

[Spider10]

My PPP car was 503bhp stock, don't ruine it by adding pops,flames etc I also hope you have the lsd if not that's the 1st thing you should do
And welcome

 

[JP04WEN]

Just over 500 BHP is what I would expect on a PPP, although 509 BHP is the highest I recall reading. Without more data it’s difficult to know how much of that is due to operator adjustment, tuning or rude health. It’s certainly in the right ball park though so enjoy

PS AMG engines do tend to out perform published figures in countries with high quality high octane fuel, because the engine will take advantage of the high octane fuel and produce more power. Published figures are pitched to ensure that it can be achieved in all markets.

It's been run on high octane fuel its whole life, which I'm sure may perk up the engine a little bit.

I'm having the oil changed in a fortnights time to Liqui Moly 5W40 leichtlauf high tech and also adding in their Liqui Loly Ceratec, rumoured to positively influence performance and RPM's ever so slightly.

I'd be extremely tempted to run her again on the Dyno and see how close to 509 it spits out this time

 

[ZeeDee]

My PPP made 470 stock and then 510 after a map. As others have said, there are so many variable factors at play that it's difficult to say. 510 is bang on for a lot of mapped cars so I'd say it's likely yours has been mapped before (unless your engine builder made a few tweaks himself lol).

 

[JP04WEN]

My PPP made 470 stock and then 510 after a map. As others have said, there are so many variable factors at play that it's difficult to say. 510 is bang on for a lot of mapped cars so I'd say it's likely yours has been mapped before (unless your engine builder made a few tweaks himself lol).

I spoke to the dealer I bought the car from last night, he said it should be 100% stock, so maybe the matey who build mine had his 3 weetabix that morning and really went for it

 

[Spider10]

I spoke with Acid at MSL ref my bhp when i had the lsd fitted and his words were most PPP cars he has had in all ran over 500bhp and mine was 100% stock

 

[JP04WEN]

I spoke with Acid at MSL ref my bhp when i had the lsd fitted and his words were most PPP cars he has had in all ran over 500bhp and mine was 100% stock

Wowww, that's great to hear, it's pretty mental to think that my motor is 11 years old and still spits out north of 500 rampaging horses!
Have you got the W205 C63 now? How does that compare to your previous W204?

 

[Engadine]

I remember Auto Motor und Sport clocking a stock SL55 at 202 mph back in 2002, and commenting that the car had to be putting out much more than the then quoted 476ps, estimating it in the low to mid 500s.

Not sure how that was borne out, but I have never thought the engine on my C63 6.2 felt much strangled compared to a higher quoted output version of the same in a CL or E, for example.

At a totally unscientific guess I would say my non PP 6.2 puts out something in the 470s.