Stupid, or Dumb? M5 Southbound, 0745

[Ted]

I've said it before.....
"On a bike, you're invisible, and their all out to get you"

Daughter no1 got herself a cbr 600f at the weekend and I've been drumming it into her.

 

[R2e]

There I am on my GSX-R1100 of 90's vintage, cruising at 85 in the outside lane ............quote]

Ah, here is the problem. 85mph. What he was obviously telling you in a kindly fashion was that you were exceeding the speed limit by at least 15mph, modifiable by traffic, road and weather conditions to " a safe speed to a maximum of..." and that you were one of those idiots who don't think the law applies to you and if we all thought like that, how would you like to be burgled by someone who didn't think the law applied to them, and don't even start whingeing about speed cameras they save lives (mind you, never understood how you can save lives, you can only postpone deaths)..........................

Sorry, couldn't resist bringing in some of the typical diatribes from speed camera threads

After being a biker for many years, I have now given up as I think it's too dangerous nowadays, and anyway my reactions are not as fast as they used to be so I doubt I'd last long. Most non bikers don't have a clue as to how easy it is to kill a biker, and blame you for not having four wheels and being as big as a car, how can they be expected to see you when you sneak up on them. Two of my friends were killed way back when we were teenagers on bikes (before the days of compulsory helmets), both by stupid car drivers.

 

[fredfloggle]

There I am on my GSX-R1100 of 90's vintage, cruising at 85 in the outside lane ............quote]

Ah, here is the problem. 85mph. What he was obviously telling you in a kindly fashion was that you were exceeding the speed limit by at least 15mph, modifiable by traffic, road and weather conditions to " a safe speed to a maximum of..." and that you were one of those idiots who don't think the law applies to you and if we all thought like that, how would you like to be burgled by someone who didn't think the law applied to them, and don't even start whingeing about speed cameras they save lives (mind you, never understood how you can save lives, you can only postpone deaths)..........................

Sorry, couldn't resist bringing in some of the typical diatribes from speed camera threads

After being a biker for many years, I have now given up as I think it's too dangerous nowadays, and anyway my reactions are not as fast as they used to be so I doubt I'd last long. Most non bikers don't have a clue as to how easy it is to kill a biker, and blame you for not having four wheels and being as big as a car, how can they be expected to see you when you sneak up on them. Two of my friends were killed way back when we were teenagers on bikes (before the days of compulsory helmets), both by stupid car drivers.

I'll assume that you aren't having a laugh here ... in which case ...


Tosh - I drive a car/ HGV/ bike and from time to time dice with death in the air - and I can assure you that I see many aggressive non compliant bike riders - I had some 4rse trying to touch my bumper tonight at 65 MPH , well , he didn't like it when the tables were turned at a higher speed - we exchanged comments , and he kindly accepted the point - he was riding 100% aggressively . He didn't think and old diesel could hustle him along . There was a quiet road , but he still had to be Mr 4rse , and couldn't wait until one car passed before overtaking .

Is it OK for you to speed while I obey the limit ? good for you , good for me , and while we are on the subject , he didn't signal - I did when I passed him though .

If I had chased him , the we would have had to listen to the standard waffle where a biker complains about bad car driving .

Try riding and driving and flying like it could easily kill you , which of course it can .

 

[MotardMan]

Try riding and driving and flying like it could easily kill you , which of course it can .

I think I do ride like that, all the time. How else would I have got away with riding for 20 years amongst some of the worst drivers in Europe? I used to drive for a living and used the policy of defensive driving to do 75k miles pa without accident for over 15 years.......

 

[Wezzel]

I rode a bikes for a few years as a teenager and I am convinced it makes me a better driver now. I am far more aware of the road conditions especially how slippery road markings, manhole covers and spilt diesel can be when cornering and braking and still try to avoid them even in a car.

We were all a little reckless in our more youthful days but I am frankly amazed at the risks bikers take nowdays, even with more cars on the road. I regularly see bikers riding between lanes on the motorway at 100mph+ squeezing between vehicles with about 18" clearance on each side; Also trying to bully their way into spaces in moderately slow moving traffic forcing the car driver to brake. I have some sympathy for them and do try to move over and let them through but so many of them try even my patience.

Finally, I overhead some chap on the radio the other day talking about driving instruction and testing. He said that instructors do no longer encourage learners to glance over their shoulder when changing lanes. He said they should be constantly aware of who is behind them and using side mirrors is adequate. He said that looking over you shoulder even for a split second is a dangerous distraction.

Personally I think this is madness. I was always taught to glance over my shoulder when changing lanes and also when turning left (in case a bike had tried to come up the inside) With bikes coming up so fast it is so easy to catch one in your blind spot and just pull over.

 

[glojo]

I accept Motardman was on a motorcycle, but does that really matter. Okay the consequences for a bike rider are more likely to end in tragedy, but what about if this person was driving a mini-bus loaded with children and some lunatic decided to just drift into the path of this overtaking vehicle?

We are talking about a driver who for one reason or another was not paying attention, be they tired, using a mobile phone, CB radio, amateur radio or watching a DVD on their COMAND. Have I covered all the hot potatoes? Ooops forgot the eating of food or having a can of lager.

Driving a motor vehicle carries a huge responsibility and we should always try to hone the skills that might make us both better drivers and of course more understanding.

Regards
John

 

[MotardMan]

I think what we have to bear in mind here, is that there are good and bad drivers and riders. Some of the things you all mention about riders and risk taking I would not be happy with, butI would not set myself up as a plod and say they cannot and should not do it. If they want to thin out the gene pool, then let them. My original post was intended to point out that this particualr miscreant did not care a hoot about what was around him and seemed surprised to see me in the outside lane. Sure I was travelling at 15 mph over the limit, but 90% of the traffic in my lane was as fast, if not faster... That is no justification, but it does put things in perspective.

Most bikes will want to get ahead of traffic if they can. I do it because I do not trust any any other vehicle behind or ahead of me, not to do something really dumb and put me at risk. So, if I can get out of the way, safely, I do. That might mean squeezing between rows of cars, or filtering, or changing lanes, or using the performance of the bike to get clear. However, all of those moves are made with a balanced calculation of risk in my mind well ahead of the hazard and tallied with constant reappraisal of those risks. Years of near misses and learning from them taught me that as a young man! Loads of you seem to resent the perfromance available to bikes and thier riders, but you have to accept, some of us have a C55 AMG, some of us have a C180. Some have a 12hp scoot, some have 150hp sport bikes. I'm willing to bet all of those vehicles get used to thier maximum on occasion. Why should bikes be different, even if it does not suit your perspective on the law, or what is safe? If I want safe, I take the car, if I want excitement, I use the bike.

Nuff said?

;o)

 

[MotardMan]

John, very succinct. Thanks for the post.

Best,

Jim

 

[del320]

:I wonder how many drivers can manoeuvre using reverse gears and just looking in their wing mirrors? John

Tell me about it - I remember doing just that for the best part of a quarter of a mile on the single track, unclassified road down the north side of Loch Awe.

The wretch driving the oncoming car was simply incapable of reversing 5 yards. (As I pulled away from him, I reckoned he was little better driving forwards )

Nowadays, with my stiff neck, I don't even attempt to turn round to look behind me through the forest of headrests.

BTW, what are wing mirrors?

 

[Ted]

You know, this is a really good thread. with a lot of sense being discussed.

 

[splang]

We are talking about a driver who for one reason or another was not paying attention, be they tired, using a mobile phone, CB radio, amateur radio or watching a DVD on their COMAND. Have I covered all the hot potatoes? Ooops forgot the eating of food or having a can of lager.

Not quite covered everything - smoking whilst driving...(or certainly lighting up..) Should be banned too imo.

 

[MotardMan]

Not quite covered everything - smoking whilst driving...(or certainly lighting up..) Should be banned too imo.

I've had 2 fag butts chucked out of windows on the motorway this week. One from a rented 7.5T, the other out of a Merc!

Reminds me of a mate who set off from home on his bike and was greeted by the sight of a woman throwing a large McDonalds bag of litter out of her window at the T junc. He stopped, picked up the bag and stuffed it in his crotch, then rode after her for about a half mile until she stopped at a set of lights. It was a warmish summer morning and she had her window still wound down, and was attending to her immaculate make up in a little compact mirror. then WHAM! In comes her bag of rubbish, all over her lap and top. My mate just winked and nodded at her, and rode off leaving her to contemplate her crime. He worried for weeks about the police visiting him for assualt, but nothing came of it, perhaps she learned a lesson?

 

[glojo]

Not quite covered everything - smoking whilst driving...(or certainly lighting up..) Should be banned too imo.

Don't forget that very much 'man' thing of using the index finger for cleaning out the olfactory gland whilst travelling at high speeds

The interior\vanity mirror should be removed prior to a woman getting into the drivers seat (game on)

John

 

[Apial]

. Sure I was travelling at 15 mph over the limit, but 90% of the traffic in my lane was as fast, if not faster... That is no justification, but it does put things in perspective.

Nuff said?

;o)

Well just a bit more please. How much faster would you need to have been travelling for the accident to have been unavoidable? Would the ensuing accident then have been the last and only only one of your relatively short accident free 15 years of motoring?

It only takes one accident at that speed and in that type of traffic to be your last, no matter whose fault it was. Go safely. We want to see you around here for many more years to come.

 

[MotardMan]

Well just a bit more please. How much faster would you need to have been travelling for the accident to have been unavoidable? Would the ensuing accident then have been the last and only only one of your relatively short accident free 15 years of motoring?

It only takes one accident at that speed and in that type of traffic to be your last, no matter whose fault it was. Go safely. We want to see you around here for many more years to come.

Inappropriate speed is dangerous, speed itself, is not. I rode with the Wiltshire Police for a weekend and they certainly know how to "make good progress". Driving without due care and attention and I include not using your mirrors and not being aware of the traffic around you, is also illegal and dangerous. At that time of the morning, on that particualr day, the weather was good, the road dry, and most of the traffic was using lane 1 and 2. I had puled out from lane 2 to lane 3 to pass this chap, and he just drifted out into my lane. My headlights were on, I was indicating the lane change, I had gained the 20 mph needed to pass him cleanly and with minimum risk. What more could I have done? Several cars had passed him upwards of 90mph, but he made no attempt to move into thier path......

As for the accident being unavoidable, I guess if I had been doing 120 and he had done the same thing, I may have hit him. I doubt it though as the bike can lose 60 mph VERY quickly, and I am always looking out for the risk. It was mainly cos I spotted what was about to happen that I did not torpedo him... That only comes with experience. I'll continue to be safe and ask that all of you learn from my story here, try to predict the unpredictable, assume nothing other than idiocy on the other drivers/riders part, and for goodness sake, enjoy yoursleves riding/driving!

Thanks to all of you for your input here, it has been a really interesting insight into attitudes and opinions. It might even make me think twice about my safety, and then twice more!

Finally a picture of the vehicle that started all of this:

Best,

Jim

 

[Gollom]

Reminds me of a mate who set off from home on his bike and was greeted by the sight of a woman throwing a large McDonalds bag of litter out of her window at the T junc. He stopped, picked up the bag and stuffed it in his crotch, then rode after her for about a half mile until she stopped at a set of lights. It was a warmish summer morning and she had her window still wound down, and was attending to her immaculate make up in a little compact mirror. then WHAM! In comes her bag of rubbish, all over her lap and top. My mate just winked and nodded at her, and rode off leaving her to contemplate her crime. He worried for weeks about the police visiting him for assualt, but nothing came of it, perhaps she learned a lesson?

I did this recently to a bunch of mean looking guys in a Belgian plated BMW in the ferry queue at Zebbrugge - one of them simply opened his back door, dropped the bag out and closed the door.

Heaven knows where I got the courage to go over, knock on the window and hand the bag back to him! Carol was cringing in the car and I think it was only adrenelin from anger that stopped me cacking my pants! He glared at me, but the driver leant back, took the bag from him and stepped over to the nearby wastebin. Phew!!

OK, probably a very stupid thing to do but sometimes ya just have to make a stand!

 

[Wezzel]

I've so wanted to that on several ocaisions. Especially with a lighted fag butt - so I could see them panic

It may only be one fag butt but they all add up. What's the matter don't they want to make their ashtrays dirty?

 

[Silestanix]

No way do I ever think that, for I stop for people that are walking rather than squeeze by. If everyone was made to drive a van as part of the test where mirrors are a vital part of driving it may help. I do not understand how anyone can think of changing lanes without looking first

I agree, having just left my job as a delivery driver, driving different vans daily, from 3.5T - 7.5T.

Motard, this was most unfortunate, glad you're alive to post this thread. Judging by the road conditions, 85mph seems fine for overtaking someone and then going back into lane 2.

Regards,

H.

 

[MotardMan]

I was lucky, but as I never trust my luck to other drivers, I'm still here! ;o)