Summary care records

[Palfrem]

Just had some post from NHS advising me that my health records are to be electronically held and will subsequently be available to be accessed by health-care staff.

Given the data protection skills and general level of care and attention of HM Government and it's many employees, I'm of the opinion I will opt out.

I've also heard that this data will be sent to India for processing?

Hmm.

Any thoughts folks?

 

[x332race]

Having just experienced A&E in Newcastle, 250miles from where I live, I would have been more than happy for the doctors up there to be able to access my health records easily....it may have speeded up my treatment.....I thought that this would have been done years ago

 

[davidjpowell]

Likewise I can't really see the problem. Even if they do lose them what harm can it really do. Other half had to have some tests recently which were very similar to ones she has had in the past in a different hospital. Due to the joined up thinking of NHS they did not even know about the first lot...

Can only be a good thing IMO.

Chances of it working are a different thing altogether.

 

[Steve_B]

We, the entire family of four, have just opted out.

Putting aside the security aspect for which the government have form, it's the slippery slope to being marketed by pharmaceutical companies if you ask me.

 

[Palfrem]

I'm sure that it's a good idea - in theory.

It's the success rate of large, Government IT projects that concerns me.

The infallible systems at :- DVLA, HMRC, Exam boards, Student Loans, ID cards, farmers Single Payment Scheme - any pattern emerging?

Let's not forget the possibility of records getting mixed up on the wards due to a "computer error"

 

[Dai rees]

What makes you think that they do not have these records already, it's like the people who complain about CCTV everywhere, if you only knew how much information the different agencys had about you, your car, and address you would be amazed and frightend.

 

[wemorgan]

A very interesting topic of which I know too little about to add much to, other than to say, computer errors are common yes, but then again so are human errors. I work at an automotive manufacturing company, where much is computerised. I can't imagine returning to 'the good old days' of stock control with paper filling, hand calculations and 'Friday afternoon' cars.

 

[flango]

NHS records have been held electronically in Yorkshire for a number of years, I get a copy on DVD everytime there is an update (not very often) so that I can carry my medical records with me at all times when I travel with work or I'm involved in motorsport activities, that way the professionals have everything to hand to make an informed decision on treatment,I have absolutely no problem with it.

 

[Sp!ke]

I'm sure that it's a good idea - in theory.

It's the success rate of large, Government IT projects that concerns me.

The thing that makes me chuckle is the fact that the worlds IT industry is embracing ITIL, when the vast majority of UK government IT projects have been failures.

 

[x332race]

The thing that makes me chuckle is the fact that the worlds IT industry is embracing ITIL, when the vast majority of UK government IT projects have been failures.

The problem with Government IT initiatives is that they always try and design a bespoke system instead of adapting an off the shelf ready made system...they they are bemused when it does not work correctly and costs a lot more to sort out.

 

[Captain Yellow]

The problem with Government IT initiatives is that they always try and design a bespoke system instead of adapting an off the shelf ready made system...they they are bemused when it does not work correctly and costs a lot more to sort out.

Actually, that is often not the case.

I work for a government department whose work involves visiting businesses etc. We introduced a new work recording system about 3-4 years ago which was based on a package used by a washing machine repair business. You can see how the package would work in that environment, but the sheer amount and range of information we have to record, coupled with the complexity of much of our work, makes it a very cumbersome system to use. As a result, lots of money has been spent on tinkering with the system to try and make it fit for purpose.

Once you take into account the true cost of the system (including the time spent by many users trying to get it to do what it should), I'd wager that a bespoke system would have been cheaper.

 

[stevieb15]

Actually, that is often not the case.

I work for a government department whose work involves visiting businesses etc. We introduced a new work recording system about 3-4 years ago which was based on a package used by a washing machine repair business. You can see how the package would work in that environment, but the sheer amount and range of information we have to record, coupled with the complexity of much of our work, makes it a very cumbersome system to use. As a result, lots of money has been spent on tinkering with the system to try and make it fit for purpose.

Once you take into account the true cost of the system (including the time spent by many users trying to get it to do what it should), I'd wager that a bespoke system would have been cheaper.

I'd wager whatever it's used for is probably totally unnecessary anyway

 

[HR17]

I often work on NHS premises with and without clinical people. You'd be amazed to see the amount of patient information that gets left around. Patients' notes, x-rays, prescriptions, letters etc.(even blood and urine samples!) I've seen stuff left on unlocked computers, boxes of files in corridors and even patient notes and x-rays in changing rooms and toilets.

I wouldn't trust the NHS one bit with my info. Its (generally)run by ignorant, incompetent managers who (all too often)dictate to lazy, jobsworth fools who are more concerned about their fag breaks than anything important. I'm not surprised its in such a mess. The sooner the make it more commercial or private the better.

 

[crockers]

I often work on NHS premises with and without clinical people. You'd be amazed to see the amount of patient information that gets left around. Patients' notes, x-rays, prescriptions, letters etc.(even blood and urine samples!) I've seen stuff left on unlocked computers, boxes of files in corridors and even patient notes and x-rays in changing rooms and toilets.

I wouldn't trust the NHS one bit with my info. Its (generally)run by ignorant, incompetent managers who (all too often)dictate to lazy, jobsworth fools who are more concerned about their fag breaks than anything important. I'm not surprised its in such a mess. The sooner the make it more commercial or private the better.

Sorry are you advocating private health care replacing the NHS or have I misread your post?

 

[x332race]

I often work on NHS premises with and without clinical people. You'd be amazed to see the amount of patient information that gets left around. Patients' notes, x-rays, prescriptions, letters etc.(even blood and urine samples!) I've seen stuff left on unlocked computers, boxes of files in corridors and even patient notes and x-rays in changing rooms and toilets.

I wouldn't trust the NHS one bit with my info. Its (generally)run by ignorant, incompetent managers who (all too often)dictate to lazy, jobsworth fools who are more concerned about their fag breaks than anything important. I'm not surprised its in such a mess. The sooner the make it more commercial or private the better.

Mmmm....my recent experience of A&E and hospitals in Newcastle was that everything is a little chaotic and you tend to spend a lot of time waiting but once someone decides to attend to you, matters get moved on quickly and efficiently. I found the nursing staff (inc doctors) all very professional. However, I did note quite a few "managers" wandering around and there did seem to be a certain amount of friction between them and the nursing staff.

Also, I was only in for a day and I ended up with a whole sheaf of papers about and inch thick!! Wherever I went Staff seemed to spend a lot of time filling in forms...so much time that they did forget to give me some basic treatments!!

 

[grober]

Just had some post from NHS advising me that my health records are to be electronically held and will subsequently be available to be accessed by health-care staff.

Given the data protection skills and general level of care and attention of HM Government and it's many employees, I'm of the opinion I will opt out.

I've also heard that this data will be sent to India for processing?

Hmm.

Any thoughts folks?

It's a necessary and possibly inevitable development. Patients can derive benefit from a system where their records can be accessed quickly in an emergency by healthcare professionals unfamiliar with their existing health problems and drug regime. In many instances hospital laboratory test results and images:- CT and Xray can be accessed by GP's directly from their surgery allowing better follow up to outpatient appointments for example.

HOWEVER in terms of patient confidentiality I would have concern as to who would have access to these records. I assume to be clinically useful they would have be accessible to a very wide range of "health care professionals" whoever that encompasses? For that reason I would be happier if an audit trail were logged with your records detailing exactly by whom and when your records were accessed. This access record and the contents of their own health record should be made readily available to each patient in a read only format to check for any errors, inconsistencies or inappropriate access if requested. This is almost certainly not going to happen, so you are left with balancing the potential gains in medical care against any potential intrusion in privacy.

 

[HR17]

Sorry are you advocating private health care replacing the NHS or have I misread your post?

I don't mean to suggest that private healthcare should replace the NHS. The NHS is fantastic and provides an amazing service, despite what certains MPs and other 'non medical' people believe.

I think that despite the billions having been poured into it over the last decade, most seems to have gone on managers, marketing, projects and generally being nice to the people who work there.

Having experience of both NHS and private healthcare from working inside them and as a patient, its easy to see how the same service can be provided with much more efficiency in the private sector, or organisations run like or by private sector managers. The private sector are able to provide the same or better service with greater efficiency and fewer staff, using the same NHS consultants. They prove that they can even make a decent profit by doing it, whereas the NHS seems to haemorrhage money at every opportunity. Its an old fashion institution run by managers who have developed from within(often ex nurses/porters/dogsbodies/jobsworths). There's too much emphasis on keeping staff placid and maintaining the belief that it ain't broke, what's the point of fixing it? In the private sector, people do what they're told by their managers, they start on time, finish when their job has finished, take a break when permitted, and don't just rely on trade unions to ensure they have job for life and a pension at the end of it.

 

[Captain Yellow]

I'd wager whatever it's used for is probably totally unnecessary anyway

Only if you want to keep voluminous paper records instead!

 

[neilrr]

What could possibly go wrong? I have every confidence in this and other large Government IT projects.

BBC News - Organ donor discovers eye error

 

[MrT]

Perhaps to inject some neutrality to the thread, one might like to look at the NHS patient website which explains the features of the care records system without any of the journalistic exaggeration:

NHS Care Records Service — NHS Care Records Service

HOWEVER in terms of patient confidentiality I would have concern as to who would have access to these records. I assume to be clinically useful they would have be accessible to a very wide range of "health care professionals" whoever that encompasses? For that reason I would be happier if an audit trail were logged with your records detailing exactly by whom and when your records were accessed. This access record and the contents of their own health record should be made readily available to each patient in a read only format to check for any errors, inconsistencies or inappropriate access if requested. This is almost certainly not going to happen, so you are left with balancing the potential gains in medical care against any potential intrusion in privacy.

The security for who gets access credentials is quite high. The system is secured by a smartcard and PIN number. To obtain these, I had to provide proof of ID including bank statement/utility bill, passport, and proof of professional registration.

AIUI a feature of the Care Records Service is that it does create an audit trail of who has accessed a particular person's record and what changes they have made (if any). Obviously it can identify the user from their smartcard and access is role based - i.e. a consultant physician would have a higher level of access than a nurse or a F1 doctor. ISTR during the design stages that there is supposed to be a 'sealed envelope' feature whereby the patient can make certain parts of their record private (accessed through a patient's web portal), so if the patient had anything in their record that was particularly sensitive they could 'hide it'.

We, the entire family of four, have just opted out.

Putting aside the security aspect for which the government have form, it's the slippery slope to being marketed by pharmaceutical companies if you ask me.

Direct marketing by drug companies to patients is specifically prohibited by EU Law - this was reviewed recently and it was decided that the status quo should prevail. There's no risk of us going the same way as the US, not yet anyway.

Just had some post from NHS advising me that my health records are to be electronically held and will subsequently be available to be accessed by health-care staff.

Given the data protection skills and general level of care and attention of HM Government and it's many employees, I'm of the opinion I will opt out.

I've also heard that this data will be sent to India for processing?

Hmm.

Any thoughts folks?

What processing would it be sent to India for? Sounds like utter bunkum to me; chinese whispers or malicious journalism?