1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Superchargers or normally aspirated ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Matt32AMG, May 13, 2010.

  1. Matt32AMG

    Matt32AMG Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    668
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Location:
    Dorset UK
    Car:
    June 2002 SLK32///AMG. OCT 2007 CLK350 AMG Sport Convertible.
    Just curious about people’s opinions regarding the power under their right foot.

    With the change in direction in engine design these last years, now no longer with forced induction, do you prefer the fireworks of a supercharged engine, or the larger capacity, normally aspirated progressive power plants. Obviously there are arguments both ways however I’m talking about how it makes you feel as a driving experience. BTW I not meaning to discriminate here on this, but it may be more directed or relevant to the AMG car drivers or drivers who have experienced both types. :)
     
  2. chiefski26

    chiefski26 Banned

    Messages:
    402
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Location:
    london
    Car:
    c63 c43
    just sold c63....awesome car......normal aspiration for me
     
  3. momomo

    momomo Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,456
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Location:
    Surrey
    But chiefski26 have you been behind the wheel of a 55K? :rock:

    On the other hand ive not tried the 63 yet!
     
  4. Bellow

    Bellow Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,185
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Excuse me, but I think you will find that in concert with downsizing, forced induction is the future..

    That doesn't however, stop you posing the 'driveability' question!!
     
  5. Gridlock

    Gridlock Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,707
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2009
    Location:
    Bucks
    Car:
    C43 AMG
    V8 for the daily slog, supercharged VR6 for the weekend back-road exploration :thumb:

    Supercharged V8 for... my next car :D
     
  6. kwakdonut

    kwakdonut Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,744
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Location:
    Highworth, Wiltshire
    Car:
    Frod Mundano TDCi, Kawasaki z650
    Think I am inclined to agree with Bellow on this - it certainly seems that more and more cars are now fitted with either turbo or super-chargers as standard!

    I used to love the kick-in-the-pants Celica I had years ago, my first turbo car btw. Since then I've had diesels which you just wouldn't drive without a turbo! (Drove an old Escort diesel years ago, no turbo, dreadfully slow to the nth degree lol)

    Even the turbo on my 6 cyl 320 really makes it a warp drive machine (even if it is on the way out!!)

    So for my vote, I love forced induction!! (automotively speaking thank you!) lol :D
     
  7. NormanC

    NormanC Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    354
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Location:
    Worcestershire
    Car:
    A207 E350 CGI
    First of all, I've never driven a supercharged car but have lots of experience with turbocharger fitted cars as well as naturally aspirated.

    With diesels, I believe that forced induction is an absolute necessity because they are so gutless without. I also have a lingering memory of certain lorry diesels from years ago not being able to run without a supercharger (Commer TS3??) but could be wrong.

    I regularly swop between a 2 litre turbocharged car with 239bhp (Celica GT4) and a 3.2 litre naturally aspirated car with 218bhp (CLK320).

    For performance there is no question that the turbo is by far better for outright performance but it needs much more driving. You have to use much more anticipation as being caught a 3000 rpm in top gear when you need to accelerate is not fun. However, when the turbo gets up to 1 bar of boost it's fantastic.

    So, for petrol engines, I believe that a naturally aspirated engine gives a more relaxed drive but a turbo can be much more fun if you give it the attention that driving it needs.
     
  8. harry_dhuga

    harry_dhuga Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    506
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    UK
    Car:
    2001 BMW M5
    Have had modified turbo car's in the past - Escort and Sierra RS & a Saab 9-5 Aero HOT and now drive a N/A V8.

    Love them all - as long as they bring a grin on my face when I accelerate.
     
  9. chiefski26

    chiefski26 Banned

    Messages:
    402
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Location:
    london
    Car:
    c63 c43
    yes owned a sl55 amg few years ago was nice but prefer 63
     
  10. Bellow

    Bellow Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,185
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Diesels need turbos both to produce decent output and to improve efficiency.
    The Commer used a roots blower as a source of scavenge air as it was a 2-stroke. Back then forced induction for road going Diesel had yet to gain popularity.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. harry_dhuga

    harry_dhuga Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    506
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    UK
    Car:
    2001 BMW M5
    So would I...!!! :thumb:
     
  12. Gridlock

    Gridlock Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,707
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2009
    Location:
    Bucks
    Car:
    C43 AMG
    Turbocharging isn't the same though - no lag, no sudden dump of power at a given rev point with a supercharger.

    With a turbo my Golf would be.. interesting. With a supercharger it's just plain fast.
     
  13. harry_dhuga

    harry_dhuga Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    506
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    UK
    Car:
    2001 BMW M5
    If you have a modified turbo which spools quickly it reduces the lag drastically(from experience) so not too different really.

    Would like to try a V8 Kompressor though as a real comparison.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2010
  14. Maff

    Maff Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,485
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Location:
    Henley-on-Thames
    Assuming you are talking about driving dynamics, then it always used to be better to have an NA engine for the pure linear curves they produced, which meant a cleaner driving style and that fact you knew what you were getting at any rev point.

    Supercharging is now a pretty much old technology, as turbo's have moved on so much and are much more efficient than supercharging (plus supercharging was really a substitute to get round turbo lag in smaller engines where it was more noticeable)

    However, with the new modern variable turbo's this is not really an issue, as the days of turbo lag are almost if not completely, no existent now.

    Whether we like it no not with the new 2015 EU emission standards petrol turbo's will start to become the de-facto now for all new performance cars, AMG have announced the new 5.5 turbo, the new '500' engine is now also turbo (see news section), and BMW are both turbo in the 'normal' and performance 'M' versions. Even McLaren with their new car.

    There will be a few die hard marques who will resist turbo pressure, such as Ferrari, but then their NA V12 engine is rather special ;)
    Just MHO of course :)
     
  15. Iain

    Iain Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    840
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Location:
    Edenbridge Kent
    Car:
    CLK230k ML270cdi
    Am I correct in saying that the smaller Audi/VW engines use both technologies.
    Turbo and supercharger.
    Or am I dreaming? :confused:
     
  16. harry_dhuga

    harry_dhuga Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    506
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    UK
    Car:
    2001 BMW M5
    It will be supercharged OR turbocharged I believe - not both.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Matt32AMG

    Matt32AMG Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    668
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Location:
    Dorset UK
    Car:
    June 2002 SLK32///AMG. OCT 2007 CLK350 AMG Sport Convertible.
    Some interesting answers here, and perhaps leads me to think I need to reword the question.

    AMG cars up until the early to mid part of the (noughties?), it seemed superchargers were the way forward. This mindset changed for whatever reasons mid decade where we have seen the ever evolving naturally aspirated V8s output more and more power since moving away from supercharger technology with V12 cars dropped altogether. So, is that a better solution? Is it a paradox to one of the green reason for dropping the superchargers by the never ending effort to compensate for the loss of out and out performance sparkle achieved in previous models fitted with SCs, by increasing engine sizes and HP.
    For example having driven both versions of SLKAMG and despite the V8 being more refined and progressive, with better road poise and handling, the fun factor is in the hysterical yet unruly SC V6 and thus wins the day for me. Similarly then, what is better in the 63 powered car than say a 55Sc car and why :)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2010
  18. NormanC

    NormanC Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    354
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Location:
    Worcestershire
    Car:
    A207 E350 CGI
    Certainly Lancia used a combination of both supercharger and turbocharger. The supercharger for low speed boost with the turbo covering the top end.
     
  19. harry_dhuga

    harry_dhuga Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    506
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    UK
    Car:
    2001 BMW M5
    Fair play - pretty rare though I reckon to see both a turbo and s/c on the same car from factory.
     
  20. wemorgan

    wemorgan MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    8,120
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Car:
    A205 C220d
    No you're not dreaming they do have both. IIRC the supercharger has a clutch so it disengages at higher rpm.

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Volkswagen-Golf-1.4-TSI-160-GT/236806/
    http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=41626

    "The VW Golf 1.4 TSI GT gets the 158bhp version of the 1.4-litre TSI engine. This is a tiny 16-valve petrol turbo unit with continuously variable inlet valve timing. Its headline feature is a crank-driven supercharger, which is on hand to augment the more usual turbocharger when extra torque is needed."
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2010
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page