Surveyor is an overpriced idiot - what can I do?

[guydewdney]

Had a survey done on the new house - (water mill in Porlock, Somerset) - numpty phones me two days before exchange, and demands payment....BEFORE doing the survey.


Anyway - desparate, I pay. 1500 quid (yes - fifteen hundred)

building survey, includng the survey of the 'tail race tunnel'

finally got it today - over a week AFTER we moved in.

things wrong so far:-
states 'local somerset slates are delaminating' - but they are not slate - they are stone tiles.

'no wood work problems at all' - yet the woodwork on the north wall is all rotten to hell- and totally ridden with woodworm (its like powder)


problem with damp in mill working room- but its oil from the gears, not water....



um- not f...ing happy...

NICS state - 'go to surveyor, an ask them to arbitrate'...???? huh - ask the idiot who cant identify a stone tile from a slate tile to arbitrate on his own survey? ummm - am I missing somthing here?

anyway - back later as tiscali wont switch OFF the intersplodge for the old owners - so I cant switch ON mine until then... so am on dialup (arrgghhh) and a soothing glass of red...

 

[scumbag]

is it good red?

might be an idea to pay for another survey and present the old one with the new one and a demand for a return of money due to whatever the legal term for incompetance is and to have them pay for the new to have been done to teach them a lesson!

that seems fair and realistic to me.

or put his windows thru!

and again when he gets them repaired for sheer badness. best effect is to wait until as soon as they are repaired and as soon as they go out have them all heaved in with a brick. it gets the message home that someone may well not be happy with their total inablity to do things right.

if they have right tough double glazing, use a glass hammer. takes the entire glass sheet out and then lob the brick in the the room as far as you can. Try to hit TV and/or fish tank if they have one! and mantle peice clock, family photos and anything what looks expensive

PS. best not to get caught whilst doing so.

PPS dont do plan a and then plan b. just choose one.



I know a really good one for a garden gate too, but it needs a certain type of latch! I was a good boy when i was young

 

[pammy]

How come the survey was done so close to exchange? You shouldn't have signed and exchanged contracts if you were concerned what a survey might throw up.

Anyways - as the survey is crap all you can really do is tell him so and demand a refund. We did on this house as the surveyer missed woodworm that he should have spotted. Got a refund and it paid for the treatment.

Sadly because you exchanged before you had the results other than getting a refund you're not going to be able to get much else as you didn't base your purchase on the outcome of the survey

edited to add - £1500 for a full building survey, if it's done right, is about right

 

[DITTRICH]

Paying people 100% upfront is, I have to say, never a good idea, as there is no incentive like money (or the possibility of it slipping through one's fingers) for getting things done. I realise this may not be a 100% helpful comment, nor, I suspect, have you posted everything that happened as you must have been under alot of pressure to do this. Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Surveys are surely only any use if you receive them before completion! better still before exchange. What is the point in agreeing a price for something if you don't have all the facts in front of you? What is the point in delivering a survey report after completion? Did the surveyor in any way guarantee to provide the written report within a timescale? Did he keep to this timescale? Did you tell him when completion / exchange was expected?
Do you want to 'have a go' at the surveyor?

Having said all this, was it not your decision to go ahead and exchange / complete without a written survey? I understand that the report was (a) late (b) substandard but I'm not sure the surveyor could be held liable for the cost of rectifying the defects discovered. Ultimately, you might get some money back, or cause him some grief, but I suspect you have better more productive things to do.

Hope it all works out to your satisfaction.
Best of Luck.

Les

PS I'm not having a go myself, just trying to be helpful.

 

[grober]

Must be a professional body regulating the "surveyor business" see http://www.rics.org/AboutRICS/about_rics.htm They should offer an impartial adjudication system if they are any good and your surveyor was a member.

 

[jeremytaylor]

Guy, as you know I'm a surveyor.

Agree with Pammy - 2 days before exchange is too late to arrange a survey, especially for a full building survey, but the price is about right for a full building survey of what sounds a very interesting (and complex) building. As regards payment up front, I personally will inspect prior to payment (in order to speed things along) but won't release the report until payment is made (cards over the phone means no delay). But I know a lot of surveyors who insist on payment up front like this.

He has clearly missed a few important points. If he's a Chartered Surveyor he must have a complaints proceedure in place under RICS rules. However you exchanged without seeing his report. You therefore did not 'rely upon his report' and I suspect that if you tried to sue for neglience, m'learned judge would say the surveyor has no case to answer.

 

[glojo]

Guy, as you know I'm a surveyor.
.

Hi Jeremy,
Is it right that you only survey the parts that you can only get reasonable access too?

I say this because problems that usually arise are those that are not obvious to the naked eye and may take time to locate. We pay for a full survey to get peace of mind, but when things go wrong the surveyor will say they could not get access to the place in question???

I would NEVER buy a property without first seeing the surveyors report, apart from anything else the surveyor might find huge problems that would make me walk away????

Fingers crossed for you Guy and hopefully this will turn out to be the house of your dreams.

How is the saga of the old property going, or has it gone?

Good luck,
John

 

[Vips]

Hi Jeremy,

I am inclined to agree with pammy. You should not have completed the exchange without having the report first. At best you could have delayed the exchange on the grounds that you are still waiting for the survey to be completed. You can ask for a part or full refund from the surveyor, but I doubt he will be willing.

However, if you did buy this with a mortgage, did your lender not want to see this first before approving the loan? Surely, it would have been in their interest as well?

 

[DITTRICH]

However, if you did buy this with a mortgage, did your lender not want to see this first before approving the loan? Surely, it would have been in their interest as well?

A very good point

 

[jeremytaylor]

Hi Glojo

Yes, any sensible surveyor (and I'm not for one minute saying I'm sensible ) will have Terms & Conditions for his services that exclude areas which cannot be inspected. We do not, sadly, have X-ray eyes (gosh, just think how useful they would be for spoting rust on Mercs!).

The full extent of areas that cannot be inspected will only be realised when we inspect the property. Just imagine me turning up to survey your house for a prospective purchaser and saying 'Right, I'm just going to take up all your carpets to check your floorboards for woodworm.' It won't happen. Which is why we have clauses to cover our backsides for that time when your purchaser, having bought your lovely house, really can't live with your curry house carpets any longer and decides to replace them. And when he takes them up, finds the floorboards are suffering from woodworm.

Surely in that light, such exclusion clauses do not seem unreasonable?

And yes, the client has to take a view on the property 'as a whole', warts and all.

 

[guydewdney]

we only exchanged after we had had a verbal report ove the phone - which obviously I cant repeat 'in a court of law' or whatever-- my word vs his... Thuis I have waited until the written one has come through (still waiting) - I have the emailed version - which no doubt is the same as the "one I will send today by recorded delivery" which was the same as the one "I sent a week or so ago" to my old address...

No mortgage.

Woodworm - very very obvious on external woodwork supporting a small roof over a disused external stairwell (long story) - so bad I can pull out a 6" square bit of wood with my hands... - not a 'under carpet' type rot (that I would understand he has / would / could miss)

Our argument for buyng in the end was - OK - its 10 - 20K for a new roof or thereabouts. we knocked off 25K off the asking - so we have a free roof repair - so to speak.

John - old house still up for sale - do you want to buy it?

 

[glojo]

John - old house still up for sale - do you want to buy it?

You could ask the neighbour if she would like to own both

Well done in the negotiations over the new property, and good luck with the old one.

Regards
John

 

[Vips]

In that case, I think you have done really well. 25k off the asking price is v. good, assuming it was not over priced, so still leaving you with some lose change after the roof repairs.

Good work!

 

[grasmere]

Hope alls gone well Guy now but reading this thread - unless I missed something whats was the point of having the survey done?

No mortgage so not for the lender
No report till after exchange - so you didnt 'rely upon the report'
You knew the rotten woodwork and type of tiles etc

so unless you needed him to 'find' something you were unaware of but also not too bothered about I would have saved £1500 !

Having said that because of his 'obvious' errors I would MOST DEFINITELY push for a FULL refund due to his incompetence - ie what exactly did he do correctly that you paid for

 

[guydewdney]

I wanted a structural survey of things that I hadnt seen - such as the 100 yard long water filled tunnel under the house (for the water from the wheel)

I didnt find some of the rot till after we bought it.

We saw SOME evidence of woodworm, but wanted a surveyor to check it out (he didnt)

It was also for my missus's peace of mind - its her first house purchace (one hell of one ) and that was fine.

I have compiled a list, three pages long, of the technical errors in his report. Everyone, including various property people (from builders to investors) have all laughed at the report.

Thaks for your concern though Ian!

Now - anyone a solicitor who specialises in this - or should I just use my conveyancing one?

 

[Howard]

How did he survey the water filled tunnel ? Did he have scuba gear ?

 

[reflexboy]

How did he survey the water filled tunnel ? Did he have scuba gear ?

Yellow submarine maybe?

 

[Dieselman]

I wanted a structural survey of things that I hadnt seen - such as the 100 yard long water filled tunnel under the house (for the water from the wheel)

Unless you pay fo a special underground/drains survey no Surveyor will inspect the tunnel.

I didnt find some of the rot till after we bought it.

We saw SOME evidence of woodworm, but wanted a surveyor to check it out (he didnt)

You should have called in a local woodworm company. Thier surveyors are usually very good at inspecting woodworm and damp problems and are often free of charge for a survey.
Surprisingly their advise isn't always to do lots of remedial work.

Even if they charge it's a low fee.

The South West is known for woodworm problems due to the warmer temperatures.

The best way to survey a house is to write a checklist from roof to floor and check each room and outside.
For a no mortgage purchase I would be unlikely to have a survey anymore.

 

[glojo]

For a no mortgage purchase I would be unlikely to have a survey anymore.

I tend to look at them as an investment. I tend to haggle a reasonable price subject to survey and then if the survey turns up something I hadn't noticed or perhaps the problem was greater than I thought. I would use the survey and get a deduction on the agreed price.

If you are not going to use a surveyor then perhaps it is a good idea to invest in one of the damp detecting gadgets that are available. (the more accurate version)

John

 

[Dieselman]

Damp, if serious enough to bother about is normally pretty evident and damp meters only measure electrical conductivity so are affected by the salts in the bricks and plaster even after teh damp has been sorted.

Anyway most "rising damp" isn't at all. It's either penetrating damp or a DPC that has been bridged by either soil or mortar.

I would expect to be doing work to any house so unless it's got subsidence or raging worm the rest can be sorted as part of the project.