Tesla outsells Mercedes Benz in the USA

[Doodle]

But apart from that, what did the Norwegians ever do for EVs?

The battery isn't dead, it's pining for the fjords!

 

[unimog]

If you want to view what's happening in a non American, go to Norway. Tesla is the best-selling marque across the board, with over 60% of all new car sales being EV.

You can argue the toss all you like, challenge everything that Tesla is doing as much as you, ridicule Elon Musk; but without him and Tesla there would be no EV's.

Its not even an argument, because everyone on the EV bandwagon are missing the whole point and incapable of having a reasoned debate about where their 'charging energy' is coming from. I have laid this out in another post, but England is a net importer of energy. It already has to buy in electricity to the tune of more than 22% at peak times from the rest of Europe. At 0.6% of registered vehicles being pure electric out of 38 million vehicles as of last October, the lights will be out long before that gets anywhere near 10%, so they will be useless to anyone. Norway produces 98-99% of its energy from Hydro (very green), and sells the other 36% spare capacity to the rest of Europe, or imports at night for pumping and refilling hydro dams. And more power to the Noggies, its the way it should be done, aside from subsidising EV's, that's very anti competition and it only gets away with that because its not actually in the EU....

And then the housing stock in the UK, take all major UK cities, especially the north where up to 60% in some cases of city stock is terraced with no off street parking and very little on street space, where do you propose installing chargers? Is this a HS2 style land grab again involving purchasing and demolishing perfectly good properties at ridiculous prices to make parking spaces, and if so who pays (read: profits) from it? Does anyone harking praises of EV's even know how difficult it is to generate and maintain stable electric supplies when the load goes from zero to 300kw and back to zero in random cycles? Musk is playing with himself if he thinks his superchargers will be wide scale stable on a Grid power system. 1000 of these chargers will need a spinning reserve (that's defined as capacity available to be used and connected to the grid, effectively on permanent standby) of 300Mw minimum at anyone time, a bit less than 1/4 of Drax power station's total output of 1292Mw, which is the largest power station in the UK currently.

It's irrefutable that those numbers simply don't work in the real world. To continue to push EV's down the public's throat is dishonest and thoroughly cretinous on the Governments and Environmentalists part with out answering the energy problem first. Its pure fantasy that EV's will be main stream in the next 30 years, no matter what car makers and lobbyists attempt to do. Its exactly the sort of up turned nose condescending that rubs a large portion of the country up the wrong way and brings about things like Brexit. People are tired having their pockets picked constantly by socialists and eco weenies for 'the greater good' and the 'next big thing'.

And for the record, I still hate the moniker 'Zero Emission' applied to EV's, its equally cretinous to claim these vehicles are unless the whole energy transfer cycle is along the lines of the Norwegian model. Nuclear Energy makes no emissions in day to day use, and produces no Co2 or other greenhouses gases. It does however produce vast quantities of fissile Uranium, Deuterium, Tritium, Ceasium and Strontium, all of which are highly radioactive and toxic to all organic life every 16-20 years or so when they need re-fuelling, a parallel that can be drawn with EV battery life cycle, which nobody is addressing now in the same way Governments didn't address High and Medium level radioactive waste in the 50's and 60's. Nobody heralds Nuclear as a way forward in the energy crisis, electric cars shouldn't receive special exemption either.

 

[markjay]

Ah yes, Norway. The one where all EVs are exempt from the crippling taxes levied on new vehicle purchases. There's a tax by weight, a tax for CO2 and N2O emissions, plus VAT. All of this adds 50% to the base price of a mundane hatchback.

They're are (or have been) exempted from:
Road tax
50% on road tolls (was 100% until 2017) and ferry charges.
50% discount on parking fees (again, was 100% until 2017)
Access to bus lanes
Access limitations specifically designed to favour EVs
60% discount on company car tax
VAT exemption on private leasing (25%)

With all those incentives to sweeten things, it is hardly surprising the uptake is massive. It also makes them totally unrepresentative.

Yes, but there's zero BIK on EVs in the UK from next year, I believe? This may have the same effect here as the tax cuts did in Norway.

 

[Doodle]

Yes, but there's zero BIK on EVs in the UK from next year, I believe? This may have the same effect here as the tax cuts did in Norway.

We'll still be light years behind the level of incentives the Norwegian govt are offering, but I agree, I can see it causing a significant uptake for those who have one as a "perk" of position. Perhaps less so for those who have it as a "working" vehicle as the nature of running EVs does not necessarily fit their operational requirements - PHEVs for them then?

How that works out in practical terms remains to be seen.

 

[markjay]

We'll still be light years behind the level of incentives the Norwegian govt are offering, but I agree, I can see it causing a significant uptake for those who have one as a "perk" of position. Perhaps less so for those who have it as a "working" vehicle as the nature of running EVs does not necessarily fit their operational requirements - PHEVs for them then?

How that works out in practical terms remains to be seen.

Agreed. And I don't think PHEVs will be BIK-exempt.

Apparently the BIK exemption is range-dependant, so it need to be a 'proper' EV with a nominal battery-powered range of 200+ miles.

 

[Doodle]

Perhaps the return of the REX then?

 

[Bellow]

Don't disagree with anything in the entire post but....

It's irrefutable that those numbers simply don't work in the real world. To continue to push EV's down the public's throat is dishonest and thoroughly cretinous on the Governments and Environmentalists part with out answering the energy problem first. Its pure fantasy that EV's will be main stream in the next 30 years, no matter what car makers and lobbyists attempt to do. Its exactly the sort of up turned nose condescending that rubs a large portion of the country up the wrong way and brings about things like Brexit.People are tired having their pockets picked constantly by socialists and eco weenies for 'the greater good' and the 'next big thing'.

...not accurate to blame 'socialists and eco weenies'.
Governments of all colours have agreed on the targets. The motor manufacturers (for their own reasons though being caught cheating influences how vocal they can be) have chosen not to attempt building engines to meet EU7 regs when they appear. It is them - by offering EV only - that is forcing this on us.

 

[markjay]

I just read the Which? Magazine reliability report for 2019.

They say that the Tesla brand has scored the highest ranking customer score of all car manufacturers. So it seems that owners do love their Teslas.

They also say that Tesla brand had the worst reliability score of all brands, and that the Models S in particular had the worst reliability score of all 409 models reviewed.

Did anyone mention a Cult...?

(PS - 67% of owners reported issues with their Teslas, and the average repair time was 5 days as opposed to 2 days for other car manufacturers)

 

[Alfie]

I wouldnt have a Tesla if you gave me one. Built by people who have been building some of the worst built cars for decades - no thanks. Ugly as an ugly thing thats just won the ugliest ugly thing contest in uglyville. How an electric car manufacturer can have the worst reliability (over conventional internal combusion powered cars) is simply staggering. It shows just how bad they must be. Frankly its a travesty to use Nikola Tesla's name on such an awful piece of engineering. It could have been so good if A) It was styled by a European (Not that Bangle chap who ruined BMW's), B) it was built in Germany, Japan or South Korea and C) wasnt so stupidily expensive.

 

[grober]

While I favour all car surveys as valuable sources of information the results can frequently be coloured by how they are conducted. Afaik the Which survey is based on self referral which in itself is selective. Take Part In The Which? Car Survey 2019 - Which? In the case of TESLA how many cars were involved, and what percentage of UK registered owners replied to the survey? What constitutes a fault- a dodgy reversing camera v a main traction motor or battery ? Perhaps also a "complexity quotient" should be applied as the more complex the vehicle the more systems there are to potentially go wrong and register as faults . While I don't have the failure rate figures for the current Mercedes E class Distronic plus control system I can confidently predict that What Cars small car of the year 2019 the DACIA SANDERO will register no faults on that score- because it doesn't have such a system!

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I wouldnt have a Tesla if you gave me one. .

I'm the opposite, I just love cars and would love a free Tesla.

One of my most enjoyable drives ever was the day that I repossessed a rally prepared Skoda, not the new/good ones. It was a 1980s one with the engine in the back, I drove it through Mid Wales and laughed my head off all the way.

I think I'd manage to enjoy a Tesla.

 

[c63chris]

While I favour all car surveys as valuable sources of information the results can frequently be coloured by how they are conducted. Afaik the Which survey is based on self referral which in itself is selective. Take Part In The Which? Car Survey 2019 - Which? In the case of TESLA how many cars were involved, and what percentage of UK registered owners replied to the survey? What constitutes a fault- a dodgy reversing camera v a main traction motor or battery ? Perhaps also a "complexity quotient" should be applied as the more complex the vehicle the more systems there are to potentially go wrong and register as faults . While I don't have the failure rate figures for the current Mercedes E class Distronic plus control system I can confidently predict that What Cars small car of the year 2019 the DACIA SANDERO will register no faults on that score- because it doesn't have such a system!

The main fault from memory was door handles and the next gripe was the time taken to do the onsite repairs. I used to work in the electricity supply industry and it does make m smile when people say “the lights will go out”. Change is coming. The future is electric. Take up is increasing all the time. That said this forum is the most forward looking and embracing of new technology so shouldn’t be surprised.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

The main fault from memory was door handles and the next gripe was the time taken to do the onsite repairs. I used to work in the electricity supply industry and it does make m smile when people say “the lights will go out”. Change is coming. The future is electric. Take up is increasing all the time. That said this forum is the most forward looking and embracing of new technology so shouldn’t be surprised.

Huh?

 

[c63chris]

Huh?

Did you spot the missing “not”

 

[Alfie]

Diesel at least, will be around for a long time yet. Not least for all the, HGV's, vans etc. I havnt seen or heard of any electric HGV thats viable for haulage.

 

[c63chris]

Diesel at least, will be around for a long time yet. Not least for all the, HGV's, vans etc. I havnt seen or heard of any electric HGV thats viable for haulage.

Tesla trucks being made now and even tankers

 

[Gollom]

One of my fears about all this is that politicians will see it as their mission to reinforce all the hype about "carbon free", so in a (misguided) effort to encourage more people to go EV they will simply raise tax on liquid fuel. And of course, the cost and lack of infrastructure will mean everyday people are forced to stay IC and pay more for their motoring needs

 

[rf065]

Tesla trucks being made now and even tankers

Be prepared for the supermarkets to run out of food every time the HGV has to stop & charge the batteries!

 

[tbourner]

We're looking to replace the Zoe with a Tesla, will have to be a ludicrous enabled Model S of course.

 

[400ixl]

Be prepared for the supermarkets to run out of food every time the HGV has to stop & charge the batteries!

They had independent tests recently and exceeded the claimed distances going more than the 300 or 600 miles fully loaded the specification should give. How many cabs can do 600 miles in a day with the current regulations on hours and todays traffic.

It will as with everything be down to the availability of charging points in the right place at the right time. The infrastructure doesn't exist for HGV's today which is going to be one of the stalling points in the UK.