The £3300 DPF mistake?

[John]

The systems in modern cars are designed to achieve maximum return using the name of a large audio manufacturer.

They are not there to sound good sadly and very few systems I've heard are any good within cars - so outperforming them despite being from a single manufacturer is not difficult.

Take Burmester. They use a Burmester amp and tinker with the sound but MB use crap speakers and their imposed graphic makes it sound awful.

This is why we see so many posts on improving here as indeed I had to do the same.

Adding a system beyond the AGW is by no means a bodge as the OEM head units are very good, use fibre optic up to the AGW and the sound coming out can be cleaned.

These days, you can source a signal from the MOST ring although I understand that is very expensive at the moment.

The sound stage is a tough one in the first place of course ... but for very little money you can happily improve what you get from a manufacturer by using better quality components.

We can agree to disagree on whether one manufacturer can make the best at everything but you could well be at a level of audio I have no interest in.

I am also not willing to spend big money either given the amount of time in my car doesn't warrant it.

Your last line is something we definitely do agree on!

 

[flowrider]

How can you replace a COMAND audio system in a modern Mercedes when COMAND is used to configure the various systems in the car.

 

[John]

How can you replace a COMAND audio system in a modern Mercedes when COMAND is used to configure the various systems in the car.

I certainly can't see how you can as I suspect you would lose whatever functionality you have but Pontoneer's cars are pre-COMAND I presume and I doubt anything with COMAND destined for an audio upgrade will ever grace his driveway!

My E55K had hardly any options - I think there were two things in COMAND on it ("Time" and one other thing), so I'm not sure it would have mattered in that case had it gone although as I alluded to in an earlier post, I don't know what other impact that has.

But my current steed would be ineffective as I have a lot of options and virtually everything is under COMAND that is not on a button.

So you have no option but to add a new system after the AGW.

 

[Jigglyjohnson]

Thanks for that. It appears my car is affected by the diesel update and the airbag update.

Airbag recall is a straightforward replacement of the control unit

 

[Jigglyjohnson]

Will my van fail the next MOT, it doesn't have a DPF?

If there are signs it has been modified or tampered with and during the emission test it blows smoke then yes it is a fail

 

[mbmb123]

Picking car up now.
The radio works. Lets see what happens the next few days.

 

[mbmb123]

No sound. The sw update hasn't fixed the problem.
"we always do a sw update. If that doesn't fix the problem you need a new radio"...wow!

 

[mbmb123]

Ive got the old dpf on the boot. Pucs to follow.

 

[mbmb123]

As part of changing the DPF, they insisted on the emissions sw updated.
Just driven my standard 50 mile mway/town route. Overall mpg was good 41.
Gear changes are different. It seems to hold higher revs in town, but not always.

The old DPF has a few pieces of the matrix missing. Don't know why that would cause a problem, other than having the pieces rattling around.
in the second picture, the white sections sit higher than the black. The edge of the white sections is where presumably another section broke off.
I don't have the broken parts.
Presumably the entirely black end is the input, and the mixed white/black end the output.
The deposition of soot on the output is weird. Hard to tell from the picture as there's a circular shadow, but there's another curve formed from the transition from black to white matrix.
I wouldn't expect to see such a sharp transition.

 

[mbmb123]

a better pic

 

[219]

How can you replace a COMAND audio system in a modern Mercedes when COMAND is used to configure the various systems in the car.

Well , just as some people retrofit Comand to cars that never had it in the first place , it stands to reason that you can equally take it out of a car and replace it with something else .

 

[219]

The systems in modern cars are designed to achieve maximum return using the name of a large audio manufacturer.

They are not there to sound good sadly and very few systems I've heard are any good within cars - so outperforming them despite being from a single manufacturer is not difficult.

Take Burmester. They use a Burmester amp and tinker with the sound but MB use crap speakers and their imposed graphic makes it sound awful.

This is why we see so many posts on improving here as indeed I had to do the same.

Adding a system beyond the AGW is by no means a bodge as the OEM head units are very good, use fibre optic up to the AGW and the sound coming out can be cleaned.

These days, you can source a signal from the MOST ring although I understand that is very expensive at the moment.

The sound stage is a tough one in the first place of course ... but for very little money you can happily improve what you get from a manufacturer by using better quality components.

We can agree to disagree on whether one manufacturer can make the best at everything but you could well be at a level of audio I have no interest in.

I am also not willing to spend big money either given the amount of time in my car doesn't warrant it.

Your last line is something we definitely do agree on!

Your AGW is no doubt just the same as my Sony DSP unit which routes the control signals from the head unit to the changers , accepts the digital optical inputs from the changers and acts as a DAC , as well as an electronic crossover , digital delay module ( both to provide a coherent stereo image in your preferred seat within the car , or to simulate the acoustics of a selection of different environments , even allowing you to simulate the sound as perceived from different seats within a given venue , not that I bother with such things ) , also accepts the analogue input from the tuner in the head unit and routes all the analogue signals to the various power amplifiers ; so yes , if I am putting my complete systems in ( of which I already have enough components to make up three such systems ) and then put in upgraded loudspeakers ( sometimes making up new baffles or enclosures in the process ) then you can put in whatever you like .

 

[flowrider]

Well , just as some people retrofit Comand to cars that never had it in the first place , it stands to reason that you can equally take it out of a car and replace it with something else .

Fortunately my SL COMAND does virtually nothing other than satnav and entertainment so a swap is possible. From what I have read I will need to change HU, amp and all speakers otherwise nothing will be compatible. The connection from HU to amp (BOSE) is D2b fibre and the BOSE amp feeds 2ohm speakers over copper. The BOSE amp apparently does some clever stuff to make the speakers sound better and to drive a subwoofer.

 

[renault12ts]

Fortunately my SL COMAND does virtually nothing other than satnav and entertainment so a swap is possible. From what I have read I will need to change HU, amp and all speakers otherwise nothing will be compatible. The connection from HU to amp (BOSE) is D2b fibre and the BOSE amp feeds 2ohm speakers over copper. The BOSE amp apparently does some clever stuff to make the speakers sound better and to drive a subwoofer.

You shouldn't have to change the speakers. I put in an Android unit and a separate amp...but kept the original speakers. To adjust the time on the clock I disconnect the battery at about 5 mins to midday and then reconnect at midday. A faff...but hey...

 

[219]

Speakers are speakers , and in my experience the standard fit Merc ones ( often Blaupunkt ) sound pretty wooly , so I tend to upgrade them . Driving into a 2 ohm load , some amplifiers will do it , others won't , you need to check the specs ; in my R129 and W140 the Merc system had three way speakers ( two in the door and tweeters in the dash top ) all in parallel which resulted in very low impedance . I replaced the standard speakers with JBL ones in the R129 which made a huge difference , even without a subwoofer .

 

[John]

Your AGW is no doubt just the same as my Sony DSP unit which routes the control signals from the head unit to the changers , accepts the digital optical inputs from the changers and acts as a DAC , as well as an electronic crossover , digital delay module ( both to provide a coherent stereo image in your preferred seat within the car , or to simulate the acoustics of a selection of different environments , even allowing you to simulate the sound as perceived from different seats within a given venue , not that I bother with such things ) , also accepts the analogue input from the tuner in the head unit and routes all the analogue signals to the various power amplifiers ; so yes , if I am putting my complete systems in ( of which I already have enough components to make up three such systems ) and then put in upgraded loudspeakers ( sometimes making up new baffles or enclosures in the process ) then you can put in whatever you like .

In part, yes.

It differs in that it it's connected via fibre from the stereo head unit and is on the MOST fibre ring so no copper / DAC and the AGW acts as the power amplifier too.

It also incorporates an input from the SAT NAV as well.

So if you rip it out, anything connected via COMAND is gone so that depends on what options you have.

Fortunately my SL COMAND does virtually nothing other than satnav and entertainment so a swap is possible. From what I have read I will need to change HU, amp and all speakers otherwise nothing will be compatible. The connection from HU to amp (BOSE) is D2b fibre and the BOSE amp feeds 2ohm speakers over copper. The BOSE amp apparently does some clever stuff to make the speakers sound better and to drive a subwoofer.

2 ohm speakers will be harder to drive but will be louder.

You need to ensure you buy an amp which can drive low impedance speakers and has enough current output (i.e. decent RMS).

If you upgraded the speakers, chances are you'd get more "normal" impedances (4 ohm / 6 ohm) and whilst this wouldn't necessarily be an advantage, I'd go by the quality of the existing speakers (I'd appraise them from their sound once a new amp is fitted as you can change speakers later).

The speakers in my 211 55 were very good it seemed and I was very happy with the sound they produced.

The BOSE amp probably adjusts the timing and messes around with the EQ map sent to the speakers i.e. nothing useful IMO!

 

[Jigglyjohnson]

As part of changing the DPF, they insisted on the emissions sw updated.
Just driven my standard 50 mile mway/town route. Overall mpg was good 41.
Gear changes are different. It seems to hold higher revs in town, but not always.

The old DPF has a few pieces of the matrix missing. Don't know why that would cause a problem, other than having the pieces rattling around.
in the second picture, the white sections sit higher than the black. The edge of the white sections is where presumably another section broke off.
I don't have the broken parts.
Presumably the entirely black end is the input, and the mixed white/black end the output.
The deposition of soot on the output is weird. Hard to tell from the picture as there's a circular shadow, but there's another curve formed from the transition from black to white matrix.
I wouldn't expect to see such a sharp transition.

Hi looking at the pictures I would say the intake is blocked with soot quite badly and the outlet is clean as the intake is blocked

 

[219]

In part, yes.

It differs in that it it's connected via fibre from the stereo head unit and is on the MOST fibre ring so no copper / DAC and the AGW acts as the power amplifier too.

It also incorporates an input from the SAT NAV as well.

So if you rip it out, anything connected via COMAND is gone so that depends on what options you have.



2 ohm speakers will be harder to drive but will be louder.

You need to ensure you buy an amp which can drive low impedance speakers and has enough current output (i.e. decent RMS).

If you upgraded the speakers, chances are you'd get more "normal" impedances (4 ohm / 6 ohm) and whilst this wouldn't necessarily be an advantage, I'd go by the quality of the existing speakers (I'd appraise them from their sound once a new amp is fitted as you can change speakers later).

The speakers in my 211 55 were very good it seemed and I was very happy with the sound they produced.

The BOSE amp probably adjusts the timing and messes around with the EQ map sent to the speakers i.e. nothing useful IMO!

Impedance and efficiency are not related ; the impedance curve of my Quad Electrostatics drops very low at certain frequencies , yet they are notoriously inefficient and need a 140W RMS amplifier (Quad 707) to drive them , although it is true that , up to limits , an amplifiers current output and power delivery will be inversely proportional to load impedance . With many recent Mercedes models you can have as many as three four ohm loudspeakers conected in parallel which , ignoring the complex interactions of reactance and inductance at different frequencies , will approximate to 4:3 ohm, so even less than 2 ohm . Nonetheless some amplifiers will cope with this . It is not the individual loudspeakers which are very low impedance but the load presented by several connected in parallel .

Your audio gateway may perform multiple functions in one unit ; it makes little difference; if you are putting in a new head unit and other compatible components down the line then there is no loss of functionality; my sat nav is in my phone and I have a choice of several apps which are always up to date ,

Perhaps the speakers in a 211 are better , but the ones in all my cars up through 201 / 124 / 126 / 140 / 129 have all been rubbish ; and in earlier models you chose your own .

 

[John]

Your audio gateway may perform multiple functions in one unit ; it makes little difference; if you are putting in a new head unit and other compatible components down the line then there is no loss of functionality; my sat nav is in my phone and I have a choice of several apps which are always up to date ,

Perhaps the speakers in a 211 are better , but the ones in all my cars up through 201 / 124 / 126 / 140 / 129 have all been rubbish ; and in earlier models you chose your own .

You are still missing the point here - it makes all the difference.

The built-in equipment in the car all is all managed via COMAND and you will lose everything that is available in there.

We're not just talking audio and SATNAV here which might be why you do not understand the scale of the issue.

We are talking core functionality of the car (so mobile integration, seats adjustments, seat massaging, interior lighting, car settings, exterior lighting and so on and so on).

You will not be able to re-integrate these things with anything other than COMAND (why would anyone produce alternatives when COMAND does it well already?).

Look through this example of a W222 to see the kind of things you lose:

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What you are suggesting is not at all possible.

The later speakers than my 211 have certainly all been crap - so that must have been a lucky break or the 211 was a big enough improvement over my previous Saab 9-5 to mean I was OK with it.

 

[219]

You are still missing the point here - it makes all the difference.

The built-in equipment in the car all is all managed via COMAND and you will lose everything that is available in there.

We're not just talking audio and SATNAV here which might be why you do not understand the scale of the issue.

We are talking core functionality of the car (so mobile integration, seats adjustments, seat massaging, interior lighting, car settings, exterior lighting and so on and so on).

You will not be able to re-integrate these things with anything other than COMAND (why would anyone produce alternatives when COMAND does it well already?).

Look through this example of a W222 to see the kind of things you lose:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

What you are suggesting is not at all possible.

The later speakers than my 211 have certainly all been crap - so that must have been a lucky break or the 211 was a big enough improvement over my previous Saab 9-5 to mean I was OK with it.

In that car , perhaps you still need it for non audio functions ( poor design restricting choice then : means running two systems side by side ) but on earlier cars you can rip it out without affecting anything other than audio/TV/nav - that has certainly been the case in W220 and R230 cars I have driven . Decent audio is so important to me that I won’t have any car I can’t upgrade the system on .