The £3300 DPF mistake?

[flowrider]

Both my W140 and R129 have single DIN slots in the console , so there are two models which ran to the end of the century , more or less Then if you look at the next generations W203 ( my S203 had only a single DIN unit as standard , but there were double DIN options for them too ) , W210 , W220 there are loads of aftermarket options , either single or double DIN .

Few manufacturers will make car specific head units , but there is plenty of choice in both single and double DIN head units , and then there are specialist manufacturers who make things like fascia kits to adapt to most car models , interfaces etc . I know nothing about MOST rings , but see no reason why an aftermarket system can't simply connect to the speakers using its own amplifiers and work as a standalone unit ; there are plenty of aftermarket interfaces , again by third parties , for steering wheel controls etc , and most new units have their own built in Bluetooth for external storage devices , telephony , and connections for reversing cameras , navigation etc etc .

While they are a bit more involved than a radio/cassette unit of perhaps 40 years ago , there is a huge industry servicing customers who want something better than the standard spec stuff .

See if you can find an aftermarket HU for my 2004 R230 SL500 that interfaces with D2B and BOSE. I can't find one anywhere. The Chinese units claim they do but they don't.

 

[John]

Few manufacturers will make car specific head units , but there is plenty of choice in both single and double DIN head units , and then there are specialist manufacturers who make things like fascia kits to adapt to most car models , interfaces etc . I know nothing about MOST rings , but see no reason why an aftermarket system can't simply connect to the speakers using its own amplifiers and work as a standalone unit ; there are plenty of aftermarket interfaces , again by third parties , for steering wheel controls etc , and most new units have their own built in Bluetooth for external storage devices , telephony , and connections for reversing cameras , navigation etc etc .

While they are a bit more involved than a radio/cassette unit of perhaps 40 years ago , there is a huge industry servicing customers who want something better than the standard spec stuff .

Yes indeed but it's integrating to what you have already that is the biggest (and therefore most-expensive) hurdle rather than fitting it.

Doing what you propose would mean any 3rd party solutions would all need to co-exist happily and I can guarantee you this would not be the case.

Things designed for cars existing kit often doesn't work or at least not well from what I've seen.

Have a look at this website and see how many options there are for 221 within each brand (I'll save you the effort of clicking - it's SFA!):

Mercedes S-Class (W221) Stereo Upgrades & Car Audio Cables For Radio Fitting - InCarTec

Whether there are enough customers is another thing but given the lack of availability, I would say not!

The other massive wall you are up against is the fact the OEM head units are very good.

You can simply build a system beyond them as they have all the functionality you need.

It's when the car gets older that you get left behind and that is where the Chinese fill that void with cheap aftermarket stuff - which is a lottery!

Who from say Sony or Pioneer is going to invest in R&D providing solutions for a 15 year old Merc?

Just is not that easy these days.

 

[NAVMERC]

Olly at PCS takes them off the car, gives them a good wash, then fit it back. Cheaper than a new DPF, and not illegal like DPF removal. But for this you need a good specialist, it's unlikely that a dealer will clean or repair anything, they just replace with new.

I had taken my DPF out and washed it out with a pressure washer. I had watched Mercman Tips from YouTube. See my posts
All fitted back along with a new pressure sensor from ECP. Then I regenerated then dpf with a star diagnostic.
in the actual values section of the dpf it now shows 12% of soot compared to <400%. 200% is allowed “somehow”!

 

[219]

See if you can find an aftermarket HU for my 2004 R230 SL500 that interfaces with D2B and BOSE. I can't find one anywhere. The Chinese units claim they do but they don't.

No idea what D2B is , but any aftermarket system will drive the speakers in your car .

I have the same in my W140 which has an amplifier in the boot , I put in a cheap Sony single DIN unit to replace the old Blaupunkt unit which died , until I get round to fitting my Sony system , which will involve replacing the standard fit unit with my Sony electronics in the boot , which are of far higher quality . I will also be replacing all the standard speakers with JBL , KEF or whatever I decide on since the current ones are mediocre .

Thing is , I won’t be integrating into anything else in the car , all the standard fit stuff will be coming out .

If you are going to fit a new system, it needs to be a complete new system .

 

[219]

Yes indeed but it's integrating to what you have already that is the biggest (and therefore most-expensive) hurdle rather than fitting it.

Doing what you propose would mean any 3rd party solutions would all need to co-exist happily and I can guarantee you this would not be the case.

Things designed for cars existing kit often doesn't work or at least not well from what I've seen.

Have a look at this website and see how many options there are for 221 within each brand (I'll save you the effort of clicking - it's SFA!):

Mercedes S-Class (W221) Stereo Upgrades & Car Audio Cables For Radio Fitting - InCarTec

Whether there are enough customers is another thing but given the lack of availability, I would say not!

The other massive wall you are up against is the fact the OEM head units are very good.

You can simply build a system beyond them as they have all the functionality you need.

It's when the car gets older that you get left behind and that is where the Chinese fill that void with cheap aftermarket stuff - which is a lottery!

Who from say Sony or Pioneer is going to invest in R&D providing solutions for a 15 year old Merc?

Just is not that easy these days.

John ,

your link showed half a dozen options from well known manufacturers.

Any of these will work fine , but you can’t expect to use bits of your old system ; you need to replace the complete system .

Then it is simple .

 

[flowrider]

No idea what D2B is , but any aftermarket system will drive the speakers in your car .

I have the same in my W140 which has an amplifier in the boot , I put in a cheap Sony single DIN unit to replace the old Blaupunkt unit which died , until I get round to fitting my Sony system , which will involve replacing the standard fit unit with my Sony electronics in the boot , which are of far higher quality . I will also be replacing all the standard speakers with JBL , KEF or whatever I decide on since the current ones are mediocre .

Thing is , I won’t be integrating into anything else in the car , all the standard fit stuff will be coming out .

If you are going to fit a new system, it needs to be a complete new system .

D2B is a fibre optic system used to connect all the audio components together (HU, cd player, speakers, telephone etc)

 

[219]

D2B is a fibre optic system used to connect all the audio components together (HU, cd player, speakers, telephone etc)

Well , if you put in a new system with its own amplifier, you won’t need to use that .

 

[markjay]

Lots of experienced audiophiles on here, including forum sponsors, but many of them won't bother clicking on a DPF thread.

I suggest you start a new thread in the correct section.

You'll be casting your net wider and get more responses.

 

[DITTRICH]

Olly at PCS takes them off the car, gives them a good wash, then fit it back. Cheaper than a new DPF, and not illegal like DPF removal. But for this you need a good specialist, it's unlikely that a dealer will clean or repair anything, they just replace with new.

That dish washer is probably on ebay as spares and repairs now!

 

[219]

Lots of experienced audiophiles on here, including forum sponsors, but many of them won't bother clicking on a DPF thread.

I suggest you start a new thread in the correct section.

You'll be casting your net wider and get more responses.

The OP was asking about his audio system as well as the DPF issue , and complaining because he is being held to ransom over some software update the MB system needs before it will work .

That was where all of this came from .

 

[John]

John ,

your link showed half a dozen options from well known manufacturers.

Any of these will work fine , but you can’t expect to use bits of your old system ; you need to replace the complete system .

Then it is simple .

I saw none.

...but did you click on any of the brands to see what they made for the W221 or did you see a pictures of stereos from brands and presumed they all made hardware for the W221?

Well , if you put in a new system with its own amplifier, you won’t need to use that .

You lose all functionality including COMAND if you do that (steering wheel controls etc.).

You would have to run all new wiring too.

Probably fine on an older car or one with few options like my E55K.

I'm not sure what other implications there are stripping it all out though.

Well , if you put in a new system with its own amplifier, you won’t need to use that .

Same as above.

 

[mbmb123]

I appreciate the comments on the audio issue.
It should have its own thread.
My own observations:
The bog standard audio in the s350 isnt very good despite having a subwoofer. Maybe that's by design, to better sell the Harmon kardon and Bose audio options.
Judging by its connections, I've a receiver in the boot. It takes FM input, fibre optics and I think has all the audio outputs.
Having the speaker cables routed to the boot and not the head unit makes a simple swap to another standard head system a non starter. Unless you like rerouting cables.

I'm unimpressed by the audio when working and likely to be unimpressed by the price to get it working.

 

[mbmb123]

Regarding the DPF...parts are on order.
I can't help thinking of alternative uses for the money.
For that dosh I could save a whale or have a baby panda strangled and baked into a delicious pie.

 

[John]

I appreciate the comments on the audio issue.
It should have its own thread.
My own observations:
The bog standard audio in the s350 isnt very good despite having a subwoofer. Maybe that's by design, to better sell the Harmon kardon and Bose audio options.
Judging by its connections, I've a receiver in the boot. It takes FM input, fibre optics and I think has all the audio outputs.
Having the speaker cables routed to the boot and not the head unit makes a simple swap to another standard head system a non starter. Unless you like rerouting cables.

I'm unimpressed by the audio when working and likely to be unimpressed by the price to get it working.

I would think you would probably be looking at a grand to really improve the system over what you have.

Harman Kardon was the usual option in the 221 and it's not toooooooo bad but I put up with it in a 2013 CL500 (based on a 221).

 

[219]

I saw none.

...but did you click on any of the brands to see what they made for the W221 or did you see a pictures of stereos from brands and presumed they all made hardware for the W221?



You lose all functionality including COMAND if you do that (steering wheel controls etc.).

You would have to run all new wiring too.

Probably fine on an older car or one with few options like my E55K.

I'm not sure what other implications there are stripping it all out though.



Same as above.

I did click on the Sony one and they list antenna connectors you can get from Halfords etc .

Of course you’d be ripping out Comand , that’s the whole point , all these other systems have the functionality you want , yes you would be putting in new wiring for the new components, that is the point of an upgrade , and getting away from the constant updates Mercedes expect you to be having done .

Even a cheap £130 car stereo these days will have FM/DAB/CD/USB/Aux/Bluetooth telephony and music playback - that is what I put in my car as a stopgap , and it is a huge improvement over the standard fit Blaupunkt ( Blaupunkt and Becker used to be good about 50 years ago , now they are overpriced tat ) ; I can voice control through Siri if I want , have TomTom navigation ( plus NAVIGON and Google Maps ) at my disposal - the sound is still cr@p due to the standard speakers , but that will be addressed when I replace the speakers and put in my XES system .

Anything is possible as long as you don’t settle for half measures .

 

[219]

I appreciate the comments on the audio issue.
It should have its own thread.
My own observations:
The bog standard audio in the s350 isnt very good despite having a subwoofer. Maybe that's by design, to better sell the Harmon kardon and Bose audio options.
Judging by its connections, I've a receiver in the boot. It takes FM input, fibre optics and I think has all the audio outputs.
Having the speaker cables routed to the boot and not the head unit makes a simple swap to another standard head system a non starter. Unless you like rerouting cables.

I'm unimpressed by the audio when working and likely to be unimpressed by the price to get it working.

My 20 year old W140 is the same despite having two subwoofers plus two full range dual concentric speakers in the parcel shelf , midrange speakers in the back doors , LF and mid speakers in the front doors and tweeters either end of the dash , plus a telephone speaker up behind the interior mirror : it is all better than the average car system but I know I can , and have in the past ; it has an amplifier in the boot powering all the speakers , as well as the aerial amplifier ( the aerial is in the back bumper ) at least the boot amp uses speaker level inputs from the all in one unit in the dash , so it was a simple matter of swapping the old unit for a newer one which still uses standard ISO connectors .

I will be fitting my Sony component system where the in dash unit has no on board amplification ; it is a tuner/CD/preamp only and all I need to run to the boot is a single bus cable , an amplifier remote trigger cable , and one analogue cable ; everything else in the boot replaces what is there : DSP unit which takes optical inputs from the two CD changers , and outputs to the amplifiers which will connect to the existing loudspeaker cables , the speakers will need to be upgraded but the existing cabling can be used and everything is reversible ; I have done this in numerous cars and it is in no way daunting .

I have in my last few cars fitted JBL speakers , but have previously used components from Infinity and Kef Kar speakers .

 

[John]

I did click on the Sony one and they list antenna connectors you can get from Halfords etc .

Of course you’d be ripping out Comand , that’s the whole point , all these other systems have the functionality you want , yes you would be putting in new wiring for the new components, that is the point of an upgrade , and getting away from the constant updates Mercedes expect you to be having done .

Even a cheap £130 car stereo these days will have FM/DAB/CD/USB/Aux/Bluetooth telephony and music playback - that is what I put in my car as a stopgap , and it is a huge improvement over the standard fit Blaupunkt ( Blaupunkt and Becker used to be good about 50 years ago , now they are overpriced tat ) ; I can voice control through Siri if I want , have TomTom navigation ( plus NAVIGON and Google Maps ) at my disposal - the sound is still cr@p due to the standard speakers , but that will be addressed when I replace the speakers and put in my XES system .

Anything is possible as long as you don’t settle for half measures .

Indeed - no stereos off the shelf so you would be ripping it all out.

I wonder how many people could actually be bothered to go through all that not to mention the cost.

It's hard enough work building a system on to the OEM head unit!

If you don't have anything better to do, the time and the inclination and the money, the option is certainly there...

 

[219]

Indeed - no stereos off the shelf so you would be ripping it all out.

I wonder how many people could actually be bothered to go through all that not to mention the cost.

It's hard enough work building a system on to the OEM head unit!

If you don't have anything better to do, the time and the inclination and the money, the option is certainly there...

I wouldn’t even consider trying to bodge together two different systems that were never intended to go together.

The whole point of a proper upgrade is to replace all the components so they are of the same standard.

I started buying high end components back in the 1980s and have transplanted them from one car to the next over that time , so notwithstanding the high cost , I’ve had my money’s worth out of them .

The only items I left behind in some of the cars were the loudspeakers because I either hadn’t kept the original ones to put back in , or couldn’t be bothered .

in many ways the job will be easier with the W140 because it is already configured for the amplifier being in the boot , so I can still use the existing cables . In the past I’ve had to run new speaker cables throughout because earlier cars were configured for an all in one stereo unit rather than head unit and separate amps , as well as running power to the boot because the battery was at the front . Now , with the battery in the boot , and all the speaker wiring already there , the job is that much easier .

 

[John]

I wouldn’t even consider trying to bodge together two different systems that were never intended to go together.

The whole point of a proper upgrade is to replace all the components so they are of the same standard.

I started buying high end components back in the 1980s and have transplanted them from one car to the next over that time , so notwithstanding the high cost , I’ve had my money’s worth out of them .

The only items I left behind in some of the cars were the loudspeakers because I either hadn’t kept the original ones to put back in , or couldn’t be bothered .

in many ways the job will be easier with the W140 because it is already configured for the amplifier being in the boot , so I can still use the existing cables . In the past I’ve had to run new speaker cables throughout because earlier cars were configured for an all in one stereo unit rather than head unit and separate amps , as well as running power to the boot because the battery was at the front . Now , with the battery in the boot , and all the speaker wiring already there , the job is that much easier .

Systems are always made up of disparate components so by that definition every audio system is a bodge.

Not every manufacturer excels at everything either so I would never blindly put the same brand together as you will be compromising.

The same signals come out regardless of head unit so it makes no odds as long as you are happy with the resulting sound.

I did the same once by using the same amps, head unit and subwoofer in a handful of cars.

I also left the upgraded speakers in as I often didn't keep the originals.

All my old cars were much easier too... I miss the days of replacing everything easily and not having to tit around with different tech and making things fit.

Although I do appreciate the main battery in the boot not that I can be bothered to install my own audio any more.

 

[219]

When you have a system designed by one maker to suit a particular car and not designed to have compatibility with other units then substitution of parts of it will indeed be a bodge .

However , when you buy separate components designed to be matched to other components from either the same manufacturer using standard interfaces , just as with domestic hifi separate components then carefully selecting and matching components to suit a particular purpose is not a bodge .

When one looks at high end car audio there are certain manufacturers who make head units which can integrate with components made by others because they will have standard phono inputs or outputs , optical or coaxial digital inputs/outputs which again are to industry standards ; the main part which is proprietary are the control protocols ( the bus links ) which link certain items together, and for some of these you have to choose certain components from the same manufacturer; with my own systems I have head units , DSP , electronic crossovers and cd changers all from Sony , but I could equally have chosen Alpine , JVC , Pioneer or Nakamichi - all of whom made high end car components at one time or another . Audio amplifiers can be of any make as long as the input levels match the signals being presented to them and the outputs match the speaker load impedance and power ratings .

If all these things are properly considered and matched you have a properly engineered system and not a bodge - in fact a well chosen component system will outperform just about any standard fit system by a huge margin .

I still tend to replace whatever comes in my cars with upgraded components because the end result is worthwhile and , for me , not difficult to do since I have worked a lifetime in audio .