The Beginnings of Common Sense Rising from the Gloom?

MisterE

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Hydrogen has a place in the energy mix. Energy generation will look to use surplus power (off peak windy nights) to produce hydrogen as a energy store.

I’d expect the majority of use to be heavy goods/plant machinery. Potentially home heating.

Personal transport will be BEV I suspect - and the vast majority of finding/development is being spent here.

As discussed above, ICE is dead. Synthetic fuels will keep ‘specials’ alive.
Mr Leno was correct a decade ago when he said that internal combustion will go the way of the horse. It will become a leisure/luxury pursuit.
 

NJSS

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If France decides to cut the cable under the channel, we drop below 100% of demand
How de we run new houses and EV's then?

I think we are there now. It's reported that there can be no new development in parts of West London due to there being no surplus electricity:-


No new houses.png

I'm stocking up on logs !

NJSS
 
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Big Janner

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View attachment 130272

I'm stocking up on logs !

NJSS
Very sensible
Each gov't has ignored the connection between the demands they made for more houses and the decision to cut our generating capacity.
Now, we are almost certain to see voltage reductions across sections of the grid and, if this and future gov'ts don't grasp the nettle, cuts could follow.

Oh, I forgot, they've asked the French and the Chinese to build some new power staions for us, they should be on line by 2035, God (and our Chinese friends) willing.

And whilst I'm having a rant, why are we STILL building homes and busnisses without photovoltaic cells installed?
If this was a legal requirement 10 years ago (and there were voices out there, calling for it), we would be well on the way to not having an electricity supply problem

Anyway . . . .I'll get my coat
 

ALFAitalia

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I would not buy any house with them on....hideous things.....that said, when you could get them so heavily subsidised they were near enough free a while back I did look into it.....they would not let me have them (at least not for free) as I live virtually on the beach. Salt air can almost halve their lives....Some companies won't fit them on the roof facing the sea if you live within 400 metres of the ocean......
 

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And yet, without PV I dread to think what my likely £400 monthly G&E bill (by year end) would be.....
PV for me is and has been (and will be) a financial life saver

And I don't get the FIT income, just reduced consumption
 
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Big Janner

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I would not buy any house with them on....hideous things.....that said, when you could get them so heavily subsidised they were near enough free a while back I did look into it.....they would not let me have them (at least not for free) as I live virtually on the beach. Salt air can almost halve their lives....Some companies won't fit them on the roof facing the sea if you live within 400 metres of the ocean......

Photovoltaic cells and electricity
No photovoltaic cells and no electricity
We live in a democracy, it's your choice, but, I know which one I'm going for.

Plus, if every new building had them fitted, all you need to do is not buy a new buliding
 

Bobby Dazzler

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Plus, if every new building had them fitted, all you need to do is not buy a new buliding
The same argument is true of ICE vehicle sales cease in 2030. There will be plenty of used ICE vehicles for years thereafter.

However the counter-argument is usually that ICE vehicles will be priced off the road and so is not a viable alternative.

The same counter-argument is true for buildings, the price or the electricity/gas may mean that we must all rely on local solar/wind.
 
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Big Janner

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The same argument is true of ICE vehicle sales cease in 2030. There will be plenty of used ICE vehicles for years thereafter.

However the counter-argument is usually that ICE vehicles will be priced off the road and so is not a viable alternative.

The same counter-argument is true for buildings, the price or the electricity/gas may mean that we must all rely on local solar/wind.
The difference is, ICE vehicles don't reduce your electricity bill.
In the UK, we have a problem;
Too many people and too little generating capability
Photovoltaic cells negate the need for generating capacity, IF the country has a long term policy of installation.
Most homes could easily generate 75% of the electricity they need.
Over time, this physically reduces the amount of generating capacity needed.
Fewer power stations means reduced problems of fuel supply and end of life cost.

Wind power is not reliable, unless you turbines scattered all over the UK coastline, far in excess of the generating capacity needed, so that there is always enough turbines turning to ensure supply.
Realistically, wind turbines are just a back up.

Solar is constant and reliable
Sunshine is helpful, but photovoltaic cells need day light not sunshine (there is a difference)
 

fabes

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Tidal is the one I don't get.
You can literally set your watch by it and yet we hardly use it.

The tech is not (as) expensive from construction and installation, the impact is lower on the visual environment) but the harvest rate is low (small motion).
However, there must be enough brain cells around to create the turbine or whatever to improve on that
 
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Tidal power is there but for whatever reason (cost most likely) we hardly use it .

Tidal is the one I don't get.
You can literally set your watch by it and yet we hardly use it.

The tech is not (as) expensive from construction and installation, the impact is lower on the visual environment) but the harvest rate is low (small motion).
However, there must be enough brain cells around to create the turbine or whatever to improve on that

The company I was with, prior to retiring, has been working on tidal power generation for years
It's really difficult
Yes it's regular
Yes it's constant
But it's a bugger to actually generate a constant (as in long term) reliable supply
The application is corrosive and hard to work in.
The tide is regular as in twice a day, but that's the only thing about it that is regular, height and speed are both variable.
Then there is how.
"Duck beaks" nodding up and down, just below the surface?
This effectively creates a barrier over which only paddle boards and cannoes can get ovle
Wheels?
Not really, where do you fix the "axle?"
Vertical generators?
These are on long term trials.
I don't know the results, I retired as they were being installed

Rule of thumb
If it's easy, it doesn't produce results
If it does produce results, then prepare for a fight
 

BTB 500

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Tidal power works OK on a small/local scale - it was used to power mills from Roman times onwards :) Unfortunately though the dam/sluice approach isn't really suitable for large scale electricity generation!
 

DrNick

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I would have thought a tidal pool was the sensible approach. Use the tide to fill a lagoon, and then at slack tide, open the sluice and drive a turbine. Should work both ways. Ie close the sluice at low tide and open it at high tide. Use the filling of the pool to drive a turbine.
Obvious problem is you only get power at fixed time so you’d need to store it though. Maybe that’s what’s stopping it. (As well as the undoubted ecological concerns)
 

BTB 500

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I would have thought a tidal pool was the sensible approach. Use the tide to fill a lagoon, and then at slack tide, open the sluice and drive a turbine. Should work both ways. Ie close the sluice at low tide and open it at high tide. Use the filling of the pool to drive a turbine.
Obvious problem is you only get power at fixed time so you’d need to store it though. Maybe that’s what’s stopping it. (As well as the undoubted ecological concerns)

A tidal pool needs a fair bit of real estate though. Free-standing underwater turbines could work in narrow estuaries etc. where there's a good flow rate, but the number of such sites would be limited. Hence the holy grail of something relatively cheap & simple you can dump anywhere in open water to generate power from tidal rise & fall.
 

BTB 500

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They do work in wide estuaries; have a look at La Rance tidal power station in Brittany,

NJSS

That's a tidal barrage though. Those are huge engineering projects and dubious from an ecological POV. The one you mention was built back in the '60s, and ...

Thomas Adcock, associate professor in the Department of Engineering Science at Oxford University says there has been ‘major environmental impact’ on the Rance estuary as a result of the station, saying “this would make it very difficult to get permission to do such a barrage again.”
 

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