The Dread Budget - Be very Afraid !

[Scott_F]

Gereralisations with no examples!!!!!

From your reading will you please quote the exact tax take from each income tax band during the 2009-2010 Financial Year. Then this argument will be resolved in one way or another!

Do you need evidence for everything before common sense prevails ?

At period 2 of the current UK tax year how many people will have already earned over £150,000 ? I really hope that you don't believe that revenue raised from this tax bracket will already have exceeded the amount paid by the many millions who pay income tax at basic and higher rate every week or every month.

I'll let you search for the evidence that it has. It may take a while.

 

[NormanC]

Slice of humble pie ??

You haven't left any!!!

What you have continually stated is that you have no personal knowledge of the matters on which you pontificate. Since you've made this admission I've asked you, if you don't have the necessary knowledge, quote a specific example from other people's knowledge to back up your arguments.

Basically, put up or shut up!!

From the inflamatory words in one of your earliest posts on this thread...

anyone who can see beyond the end of their nose doesn't need reports and research

...all we have had from you is broad generalisations and a total inability to provide specific examples to back up your arguments. With your gleeful addition of selective quoting I've just got sick of trying to get a sensible response from yourself.

I repeat...

if you don't have the necessary knowledge, quote a specific example from other people's knowledge to back up your arguments.

Basically, put up or shut up!!

 

[Scott_F]

You haven't left any!!!

What you have continually stated is that you have no personal knowledge of the matters on which you pontificate. Since you've made this admission I've asked you, if you don't have the necessary knowledge, quote a specific example from other people's knowledge to back up your arguments.

Basically, put up or shut up!!

From the inflamatory words in one of your earliest posts on this thread...

anyone who can see beyond the end of their nose doesn't need reports and research

...all we have had from you is broad generalisations and a total inability to provide specific examples to back up your arguments. With your gleeful addition of selective quoting I've just got sick of trying to get a sensible response from yourself.

I repeat...

if you don't have the necessary knowledge, quote a specific example from other people's knowledge to back up your arguments.

Basically, put up or shut up!!

Well for a man who needs evidence for everything yours has been conspicuous by its absence.

Whereas I have had the honesty to admit what experience I have and have not, the best you have managed so far is merely to concur with the personal experiences of 2 other people who I suspect that you don't know. I will also wager that I have spent far more time living outside a comfortable little bubble than you ever will otherwise you wouldn't hold some of your stranger views.

However, I am a fair man. I will provide evidence that more income tax has been raised from the 20% and 40% tax bands than the new 50% marginal rate that came in April. You in turn can provide detailed statistical evidence to support your assertion that the only thing that keeps people poor is their refusal to try harder.

Selective quoting and sensible responses ?? Do be brief.

I have quoted your words exactly and not had to resort to trying to attribute my wild and untenable statements back to you as I backpeddle like mad. And how can anyone who advocated controlling who can and can't reproduce talk about sensible responses ?? That was you at 1.27pm today by the way. Or was that another one of my quotes as well ??

With such bizarre and extreme views and your evident inablity to remember what you have been spouting I'd advise you not to bother with the 'put up' and go straight for option 2. It will save you any more embarrassment !

 

[NormanC]

Well for a man who needs evidence for everything yours has been conspicuous by its absence.

Whereas I have had the honesty to admit what experience I have and have not, the best you have managed so far is merely to concur with the personal experiences of 2 other people who I suspect that you don't know. I will also wager that I have spent far more time living outside a comfortable little bubble than you ever will otherwise you wouldn't hold some of your stranger views.

However, I am a fair man. I will provide evidence that more income tax has been raised from the 20% and 40% tax bands than the new 50% marginal rate that came in April. You in turn can provide detailed statistical evidence to support your assertion that the only thing that keeps people poor is their refusal to try harder.

Selective quoting and sensible responses ?? Do be brief.

I have quoted your words exactly and not had to resort to trying to attribute my wild and untenable statements back to you as I backpeddle like mad. And how can anyone who advocated controlling who can and can't reproduce talk about sensible responses ?? That was you at 1.27pm today by the way. Or was that another one of my quotes as well ??

With such bizarre and extreme views and your evident inablity to remember what you have been spouting I'd advise you not to bother with the 'put up' and go straight for option 2. It will save you any more embarrassment !

Just a couple of points.

You earn a pat on the back as, for once you are partly right. Of the 2 examples you have been given I don't know them both.

One example was given by Spike, an administrator on this forum. I believe his harrowing story but I suggest that you take it up with him if you don't believe him.

The second example that you were given I actually know very well as it is myself!! No matter how many "decent newspapers" you attempt to understand you will never be able to tell me anything about making an effort to raise oneself from poverty. I've been there. I've done it. I know what can and can't be done.

As you mature you may come to realise that semi-understood reading is no substitute for experience.

You would do well to ask your English teacher about selective quoting and quoting out of context. It is knowledge that will stand you in good stead as you grow up.

I'll leave you to have the final word as I will not respond to you again. I find that someone with your arrogance who lacks the basic intelligence and education to stop them creating a word like backpeddle when the context says the only correct word is backpedal is beneath my notice.

Apologies to other readers but immature idiots who cannot understand that reading newspapers is no substitute for real life eventually get my goat!!

 

[Alfie]

.....................................

I have no idea what you're talking about anyway.

That is the most accurate thing you have said in all your posts. You have demonstrated it very well.

Do you own or drive a Mercedes?

 

[Scott_F]

Just a couple of points.

You earn a pat on the back as, for once you are partly right. Of the 2 examples you have been given I don't know them both.

One example was given by Spike, an administrator on this forum. I believe his harrowing story but I suggest that you take it up with him if you don't believe him.

The second example that you were given I actually know very well as it is myself!! No matter how many "decent newspapers" you attempt to understand you will never be able to tell me anything about making an effort to raise oneself from poverty. I've been there. I've done it. I know what can and can't be done.

As you mature you may come to realise that semi-understood reading is no substitute for experience.

You would do well to ask your English teacher about selective quoting and quoting out of context. It is knowledge that will stand you in good stead as you grow up.

I'll leave you to have the final word as I will not respond to you again. I find that someone with your arrogance who lacks the basic intelligence and education to stop them creating a word like backpeddle when the context says the only correct word is backpedal is beneath my notice.

Apologies to other readers but immature idiots who cannot understand that reading newspapers is no substitute for real life eventually get my goat!!

[FONT=&quot]Many thanks for the pat on the back - very gracious. However, I was actually referring to the experiences of Spike and Mudster as I had a hunch that you were familiar with your own circumstances.

And as a middle-aged man I'm almost flattered in a way by your implication that I am some young whippersnapper who has yet to grow up and experience life. Almost but not quite.

I've no idea what age you are and frankly I don't care. But let's examine some of the pearls of wisdom that your venerable age and experience have afforded you. In 2007 - 08 there were 13.5 million people living in households that the Government views as being in poverty (Poverty indicators - The Poverty Site should you still crave evidence). The reasons why such a huge swathe of the population is in this predicament are varied and complex. But according to you there is only a single reason and it is perfectly straightforward:

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The basic problem is that those at the bottom of the so-called social divide have no desire to raise themselves out of it. They want to be pulled up by others, making no contribution themselves." 24/6 6.30pm

However, we have no need to worry as you can also offer us a single solution:

"No-one is allowed to have children unless they are socially, morally and financially suitable persons in a life-long relationship. I wouldn't like to make the decision as to who was suitable, but it will work." 27/6 1.27pm

I haven't quoted your entire posts as they are too long but they are here to re-visit although I'd be surprised if anybody wanted to bother. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Your wild outpourings are there for all to see so whining about 'selective quoting' won't get you off the hook and you are damned by your own hand. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Such views are unacceptable in or out of any context and the latter seems like the rambling of some latter-day Josef Mengele with a perverse interest in selective breeding. I don't need an English teacher to tell me that but I'd would like to know what your teachers would make of your bizarre opinions. But I think I can guess.

Whereas my spelling error does me no credit it is small beer compared to posting some offensive tosh and then trying to attribute it to me either out of your inability to recall your own rants from only a few hours earlier or from sheer embarrassment at having to re-read the nonsense that you write and finally realising what an idiot you look. In any case you should have had the good grace to apologise as I consider it to be nothing less than slander !!

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]I don't understand why you seem to think that age is relevant here but you have managed to conclusively prove that stupidity and intolerance are not the preserve of any single age group. If I live to be 100 I will never hold the views displayed in the above 'selective quotes'. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]You clearly don't read any decent newspapers and the experience of life that you claim to have has apparently taught you nothing. What is even more tragic is that you have taken every opportunity to reveal yourself to the world as an ignorant bigot.

You are a sad individual and despite your extreme and offensive views I pity you. I really do.

So re-read the 'selective quotes' above and hang your head.
[/FONT]

 

[Scott_F]

That is the most accurate thing you have said in all your posts. You have demonstrated it very well.

Do you own or drive a Mercedes?

I drive a Reliant Robin but I come here to bait people who's views don't stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

 

[Rovinghawk]

The subject of your degree isn't really relevant here

It shows that I can count, understand statistics & see through the lies contained therein.

but your arithmetic is obviously far worse than mine.

Start a poll on it- let's see who wins.

Let's ignore the 10% tax rate on earnings of less than £2500

You're ignoring tax-free allowances, too. That part of the facts presumably doesn't suit you.

and the new 50% rate

That bit doesn't suit you either, does it?

The vast majority of income tax revenue comes from the 20% basic rate and 40% higher rate.

Probably true, but I'd love to see some proof of your statement.

let's take the mid-point of 30% as a ballpark figure.

Why? Other than this suits your other presumptions & ignorances, obviously.

A person earning a low wage of £14,000 a year would have had most of their taxable earnings taxed at 20%.

£6475 tax-free, 2500 at 10%=£250, £5000 at 20%= £1000. Total £1250

That now rises to the flat rate of 30%.

Now £1750.

A person earning a high salary of ten times that would have had most of their taxable pay taxed at 40%. That now falls to 30%.
Who now pays more tax and who now pays less ?

£6475 tax free, £2500 at 10%=£250, £131,000 at £30%= £39,300, total £39,550

Got it! The guy paying £39K is paying more tax than the guy paying £1750.

There is a calculator on your PC if your arithmetic isn't too hot.........

I didn't need one; as I said, I can do maths. Give it a try sometime.

Try reading this & see whether you learn something about taxation.
http://www.wisebread.com/bar-stool-economics-0Read

RH

 

[Rovinghawk]

Do you need evidence for everything before common sense prevails ?

Common sense meaning agreeing with your views?

RH

 

[Gollom]

Come on people - this thread is very, very interesting. But PLEASE don't let it sink into name calling!!! Lets just accept that we all have differing POV's and carry on with the sensible and fascinating debate!!!!

 

[Alfie]

I drive a Reliant Robin but I come here to bait people who's views don't stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

Why does that not suprise me.

I think your statement should read 'anyone who's views differ from yours'.

Your scrutiny just doesnt stack up and appears to come from a viewpoint of politcal extremism. I can see you are angry with what you perceive to be injustices in society and can only assume you are very unhappy with the election result. I would suggest that you find a political forum or a Reliant Robin forum better suited to your affiliations. You may well find more friends any sympathy there.

 

[Mr E]

[FONT=&quot]"No-one is allowed to have children unless they are socially, morally and financially suitable persons in a life-long relationship. I wouldn't like to make the decision as to who was suitable, but it will work." 27/6 1.27pm

How you can have the front to quote this I do not know. You should be the one hanging your head in shame by deliberately mis-quoting through omission.

Don't understand what I'm saying? Here's NormanC's full quote:
"I see the solution you are proposing. No-one is allowed to have children unless they are socially, morally and financially suitable persons in a life-long relationship. I wouldn't like to make the decision as to who was suitable, but it will work."

See the seven words I have put in bold? NormanC was actually extrapolating what your views seemed to be, yet by deliberately exluding those words you attempt to acribe those views to him.

Shame on you - what little credibility there was in your argument has be shot to pieces