The Elephant in the Room

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Oh, and regarding the photo op... if they met in front of the cameras then a deal that makes both of them look good has most likely been struck in advance.

For Trump, in his eyes pardoning a woman, and a Hispano, two groups he has been traditionally been accused of mistreating, would be a form of rehabilitation, I think.
 
markjay said:
Well I've been saying for some time now that the sentences dished-out in the US are crazy...

I read recently that nearly 1% of the US adult population are locked-up at any given point of time.

Yes Bernie Maddof was the world's greatest conman ever, to the tune of $50bn, but 150(!) years for a financial crime? Here he would have gotten 10 years.

Paedophile Dr Nassar was sentenced in the US to 175 years.... how long a sentence he would have gotten here? The Rochdale gang, for far more vile crimes, got from 5 years to 25 years.

As for Alice Marie Johnson, she was convicted to life in prison in 1994 for leading a Columbian drug ring that imported an estimated 2000-3000Kg of Cocaine from Columbia to the US over a period of 4 years. What would she have gotten in the UK? I reckon 12 to 15 years tops.

My view of Alice Marie Johnson's case? In the UK she would have been long out of prison by now. In Thailand or Egypt she would have been ececuted... so she's somewhere in between.

So my view is that she should be released, but not as part of an individual pardon - instead I think that the US should look long and hard at their justice system and review their sentencing policies, they are closer in their uncompromising severity to 3rd world counties that to Western Europe.

And most importantly, looking at crime levels in the US, these harsh sentences are clearly not working.

Fat chance of this happening under a Republican president though, let alone under Trump.
Click to expand...

I would prefer that the UK built more prisons, stop letting criminals get away with a slap on the wrist or a suspended sentence, and handed out much more severe sentences than at present. We are far far too soft. 10 - 15yrs for life and time off for being good? what a joke.
Our biggest error was abolishing the dealth penalty for certain crimes IMO. In the event of DNA evidence nowadays, guilt is much more likely to be proven. Kill a child, lose your life seems right to me but snowflakes shrink away from true justice. An eye for an eye.

As for harsher sentences not working, the UK will never find out whilst our soft system is laughed at by criminals.
 
Well I think it's a done thing now, and Alice Marie Johnson will most likely get her pardon.

Mind, here in the UK Myra Hindley died in prison and never made parole or got a pardon, in spite of reports that she found solace in the Catholic faith, became a reformed woman and helped other inmates.

I do have some sympathy to Alice Marie Johnson, as said I think that US sentences are way too harsh, she served 22 years and that in my view is a punishment fitting her crime so yes I would release her..

What does make me feel uncomfortable however is that Myra Hindley accepted, admitted, and repented her crimes, while Alice Marie Johnson (or her PR machine anyway) seems to try and belittle her offences.

Googling it I see often quoted that it was her 'first offence', a 'non-violent offence', 'committed under financial distress'.

Well not quite.... wrong on all counts, in fact. This is what Google found:

image.png


'first offence' - first conviction, maybe, not 'first offence'. She imported '2,000 to 3,000 Kg' of Cocaine over a period of 4 years... that is a repeat and persistent offence, which would have required very many 'consignments' and trips. So not exactly a the one-off error of judgment that her PR lobby will have us believe.

'non-violent offence' - to the extent that drugs can be considered 'non violent'... one wonders how many people were killed by this '2,000 to 3,000 Kg' of Cocaine? Both directly as result of use or overdose, and as victims of violent crimes committed by addicts looking to fund their next fix? Suggesting that dropping '2,000 to 3,000 Kg' of Cocaine into the streets can be considered a 'non violent' act is stretching it by a mile.

'committed under financial distress' - the newspaper article talks about 'multi-million dollar' operation. I guess that one man's (or woman's) riches is another person 'financial distress'.

The interesting part is that Alice Marie Johnson is not contesting her actual conviction of being a drug Lord, instead she is trying to belittle it, and I think that's wrong. I would be more sympathetic to her is she went down the Myra Hindley route and accepted that what she did was a serious crime with grave consequences for very many people, and at the same time say that she has seen the error of her ways, regrets her serious crimes, but now done her time.

And seeing Kim Kardashian portraying her as someone who has committed a 'first and non-violent offence under financial distress' seems all wrong. On very many levels...
 
AMGeed said:
I would prefer that the UK built more prisons, stop letting criminals get away with a slap on the wrist or a suspended sentence, and handed out much more severe sentences than at present. We are far far too soft. 10 - 15yrs for life and time off for being good? what a joke.
Our biggest error was abolishing the dealth penalty for certain crimes IMO. In the event of DNA evidence nowadays, guilt is much more likely to be proven. Kill a child, lose your life seems right to me but snowflakes shrink away from true justice. An eye for an eye.

As for harsher sentences not working, the UK will never find out whilst our soft system is laughed at by criminals.
Click to expand...
TBH this cames across as a bit of a knee jerk reaction.
 
markjay said:
Well I've been saying for some time now that the sentences dished-out in the US are crazy...

I read recently that nearly 1% of the US adult population are locked-up at any given point of time.

Yes Bernie Maddof was the world's greatest conman ever, to the tune of $50bn, but 150(!) years for a financial crime? Here he would have gotten 10 years.

Paedophile Dr Nassar was sentenced in the US to 175 years.... how long a sentence he would have gotten here? The Rochdale gang, for far more vile crimes, got from 5 years to 25 years.

As for Alice Marie Johnson, she was convicted to life in prison in 1994 for leading a Columbian drug ring that imported an estimated 2000-3000Kg of Cocaine from Columbia to the US over a period of 4 years. What would she have gotten in the UK? I reckon 12 to 15 years tops.

My view of Alice Marie Johnson's case? In the UK she would have been long out of prison by now. In Thailand or Egypt she would have been ececuted... so she's somewhere in between.

So my view is that she should be released, but not as part of an individual pardon - instead I think that the US should look long and hard at their justice system and review their sentencing policies, they are closer in their uncompromising severity to 3rd world counties that to Western Europe.

And most importantly, looking at crime levels in the US, these harsh sentences are clearly not working.

Fat chance of this happening under a Republican president though, let alone under Trump.
Click to expand...

The prison industry in the US is where big business makes huge profits. They lobby effectively to protect their "interests" and this particular President is even less likely than his predecessors to disrupt their gravy train:

Private Prison Industry Lobbying, Profits Soar Under Trump Administration
 
AMGeed said:
I would prefer that the UK built more prisons, stop letting criminals get away with a slap on the wrist or a suspended sentence, and handed out much more severe sentences than at present.
Click to expand...

Great idea.

And who's going to pay for them all ?
 
Scott_F said:
And where do we get the rest from ?
Click to expand...

The £13.4 billion wasted abroad in 2016 should cover the cost of a few.
Lets not get pedantic about it. We could build more if the desire was there. The money is.
 
AMGeed said:
The £13.4 billion wasted abroad in 2016 should cover the cost of a few.
Lets not get pedantic about it. We could build more if the desire was there. The money is.
Click to expand...

That's a lot of money to spend on something that we know doesn't work.
 
markjay said:
Foreign Aid? Or Prisons? Or both?
Click to expand...

Foreign aid achieves a lot but would work much better if less money was siphoned off or squandered whereas our prison system is an abject failure.
 
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