The end of fossil fuel

Discussion in 'AMG Lounge' started by zoros, Jul 6, 2017.

  1. zoros

    zoros Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    No more all petrol / diesel engines from Volvo as of 2019.
    No more sale of petrol or diesel in France as of 2040.
    Britain to follow suit.

    Does this mean the end of Classic Cars use?

    If you have a newish AMG today, it will be 25 ish years old in 2040. Not exactly classic car territory is it ?

    Could this cause the collectors car bubble to burst forever?

    What's the point keeping your dream car if you can't buy petrol?
     
  2. Happytalk73

    Happytalk73 MB Club Veteran

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    The rich will be ok. Let stockpiling commence.

    Imagine how much they'll be able to demand? £1000 per gallon anyone. Good investment opportunity.

    What's the shelf life on petrol?
     
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  3. markmifsud

    markmifsud Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    That wont work for long, shelf life is 1 year for a sealed container and 6 months after its been opened.

    Someone must be confident of a working alternative.

    I think its actually a ban on the sale of petrol/diesel CARS by 2040, not the fuel itself and I am not so sure the UK has actually signed up for this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
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  4. Adamccc

    Adamccc Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Pretty sure Volvo will be eating those words very shortly. Only 2 out of their 10 models on their website are available as "Plugin Hybrids" - they don't have even 1 fully electric car yet and they want to replace the whole range in just 18 months?!

    23 years is a long time in tech, (it's now 10 years since the first iPhone) so I can imagine that we could be all running on electric by then as it also gives things built now time to depreciate so electric cars will be affordable for all.

    Hopefully, it'll be the general sale of fuel that will be banned but you could still buy it from certain shops... although the price will be insane with the cost to produce such a small amount + limited shelf life. Sadly, the more you think about it, I doubt they'll let petrol engines on the road after that point and they'll be just for trailering to shows or track/racing.

    Also, we'll see a shift in having no petrol stations, people will either charge their cars at home with enough range to last them for a long journey or have the unmanned charge points we see today. There'll be barely any garages around, far fewer moving parts means fewer things to replace and maintain and most probably far too complicated for an indie to repair anyway. It may even get to the point with self-driving cars that, for most people, owning a car is a thing of the past and you'll just be able to book a self-driving taxi at any time, for any distance for less than would it would cost you in fuel for a normal car.

    Definitely interesting times ahead.
     
  5. ricky s

    ricky s Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I have got enough grief with the wifes car already, without explaining to her that theres no more petrol available, can we just not sweep this subject under the carpet!!:dk:
     
  6. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Volvo's move " towards" electric = mild hybrid, hybrid, 100% electric is said to be driven by GEELY their Chinese owners. The immediate pressure comes from increasingly stringent European emission regulations. The 48 volt mild hybrid tech is virtually bolt on to existing platforms so I would expect to see it in the next couple of years from several European manufacturers. :dk:
     
  7. Charles Morgan

    Charles Morgan MB Club Veteran

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    I sold both my top end classics because of this. Current values are absurd anyway.

    Petrol will go the way of horses, and sooner than one thinks. Once critical mass is reached, the economics of refining and retailing will rapidly make selling fossil fuels more rare.
     
  8. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    So what's the alternative then?

    Hybrid cars still require fossil (or bio) fuel - while pure EVs require a charging infrastructure and more power stations neither of which will happens any time soon.

    Seems were stuck with fossil fuel for a little longer...?
     
  9. Adamccc

    Adamccc Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Everything'll go hybrid in the next 5 years, more and more models will get full electric versions in 10 with the petrol counterpart to slowly be phased out in the 10 years after that. It'll be interesting to see at what point of percentage of electric adoption that the government outright bans petrol cars on the road.
     
  10. st13phil

    st13phil MB Club Veteran

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    I agree, but I also think even those end users who think that to be no bad thing will likely be surprised at how it will impact their personal mobility. There are powerful forces who have been working for many years to curtail the use of personal transport, using the cloaks of environment protection and safety to justify their position. It is naïve to believe that those who have an ideological dislike of personal transport won't use the demise of fossil-fuel powered vehicles as a method to advance their aims.
    And ever is it thus. The flies in the ointment however, are shipping and aviation, neither of which have a viable alternative fuel source and are unlikely to get one in the next 20 years.
     
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  11. Charles Morgan

    Charles Morgan MB Club Veteran

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    I have found my personal mobility to be increasingly constrained by other people's personal mobility. With the population of the South East rising all the time, I am no longer using my cars half as much as I did even a few years ago. Some nettles are going to have to be grasped soonish as gridlock gets ever closer.
     
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  12. Palfrem

    Palfrem Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Thankfully I will be dead by 2040.

    I intend to panic buy V8s, now!
     
  13. WhiteBlack

    WhiteBlack Member

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    I'm not sure why this should give anyone any cause for concern? Did we slaughter all our horses and stop horse racing with the invention of the car?

    I'd imagine by 2040 we'll all be using electric cars to commute and keeping our classic petrol cars for fun. I've no problem with that at all, I stopped enjoying driving to work a very long time ago.
     
  14. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Since the majority of plastics and other chemical feedstock [nathpha ] originate from refinery feedstock its unlikely that our insatiable demand for fossil fuels is going to dimimish any time soon. How they crack the raw material into various fractions may change a bit if the demand of gasoline/diesel changes.:dk:

    [​IMG]
    BBC - GCSE Bitesize: Fractional distillation
     
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  15. Yugguy

    Yugguy Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Will we able to keep our classic petrols though? Will there be domestically available petrol to put in them? What I mean is that yes, military and large-scale applications such as flight might still be able to get fuel as I doubt an electric fighter jet will ever happen but will we?
     
  16. davidjpowell

    davidjpowell Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Has anyone pointed out that the basic premise of the OP is wrong?

    Every Volvo will have an electric motor. There will be hybrid options which will include both diesel and petrol engines.
     
  17. BTB 500

    BTB 500 MB Club Veteran

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    As already mentioned unless Volvo switch to pure EVs they will still be making and selling as many petrol engines as now ... every hybrid has one.
     
  18. addbuyer

    addbuyer Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Ok I can't see lorries / passenger planes going electric. So it's going to effect the man on the street as always.
    I'm sure electric vehicle range will improve dramatically in the coming years but what about the smaller petrol and Diesel engines fitted to the 'genuine hybrid motors' will they become more efficient and powerful?

    Where I'm going with this is, what about the thousands and thousands of caravaners that go to the continent or travel across the continent every summer?
    Electric cars won't pull caravans very far and the smaller fosel engines won't cope either?
    So a huge market / revenue / past time could go
     
  19. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    In answer to that question in many future "extended range" electric cars the onboard internal combustion engine will simply function to top up the battery and will never be directly linked to the road wheels- all variable transmission demands will be catered for by the electric motor/s As such the I/C ENGINE can run at a fairly constant speed with optimised fuel efficiency- indeed heat generated by the battery coolant system might be used to preheat it such its always warmed up even when not being used. :dk:

    ps the big question mark for hybrid/electric cars in Northern climes remains reduced range in cold weather especially when you take into acount extra load such as heaters/demisters/ window heaters . It's not insurmountable of course and is perhaps a reminder how all our equivalent I/C cars use more fuel in cold weather anyway
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  20. zipdip

    zipdip Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Do not worry about it until you have to wear flak jacket and get shot at for driving your oil burner, we are talking about France,where their social costs are out of control,people are not working their contractual hours many are working half of them and payed for the whole week,dustman were asked how many hours they want to work every day and so they work a average of 3.5 hrs a day,when the benefits are challenged they riot,and this country is going to end petrol and diesel cars i think not .
     
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