The EV fact thread

[Petrol Pete]

Can we try and stick to facts (such as they are) that are reported in main stream media , preferably from more than one scource ? They will of course on many occassions be bought to us via social media by either people who are 100% conviced that EV's are the future and those who have polar opposite views...and everyone in between.

It will be hard to ignore the messenger , in the two clips I post here one is a softly spoken Kiwi bloke and the other is John C , but it is the message that must be the truth and not the opinion.

Disclaimer.

• I do not work in the car industry , I have done though . (fact)
• My wife is an ideal candidate for a fully EV due to short distances and car use , off street parking. In my estimation she would only need to fully charge a decent EV once every 2 months or so. (fact)
• I can not find a viable financial solution to get rid of her 2004 Vauxhaull Zafira and replace it with an EV , plus she like the thing ,odd I know ,but she has also kept me around for a long time ? (fact)
• I do not think we are anywhare near ready for the government driven EV rollout here in the UK . (opinion).
• I think business (money talks) will slow down the push for everyone to drive an EV . It could come from companies that insure buildings/tunnels/ships ..."you'r not parking that there mate.." (opinion)
• I am not anti EV . I just think the wool is intentionally being pulled over peoples eyes regarding the reality of there usefulness in helping 'save the planet' (my version of a fact).

Without further ado here are 2 clips which could be percieved as being anti EV when in fact they are just reporting on a business decision of someone ho has ordered a 100 000 EV's . There are many more factual reports of CEO's of some of the biggest car manufacturers in the word saying the EV's are not their future .

The truth is out there , let us try t find it in a grown up way and discuss it without using the word Luddite or posting pictures of a horse and cart . Let us not forget EV's have been arournd for over 130 years. They are not going away.

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[m80]

I think this may be a Brexit debate.
There are pro's and 'cons' to the EV argument. Where we are unable to discern the viability is that the taxation of using EV's has yet to evolve.
Then there are suggestions of the pay per mile strategy. That will upset the principle of the cheap charging / fuel comparrison.
And as you suggest, what are the likely impacts of restricted, parking, ferry / tunnel usage, and insurance penalties (if there becomes an increased perception that there are higher risks).

To confuse further, are Hybrids part of this debate?

 

[ALFAitalia]

Uh oh.....heated debate coming....I don't like EVs and will never own one.....but there is a lot of nonsense talked against them.

• "I do not think we are anywhere near ready for the government driven EV rollout here in the UK . (opinion)."

Clearly we are....and its happening like it or not. We might not have enough charging points yet.....but we also don't have that many electric cars yet....one will increase with the other.....you could not find petrol stations all over the place in the first few years of ICE cars either....but we already have enough electricity....even if ICE cars all magically turned to EVs overnight the National Grid recon they could cope. Also it will probably take 40 years before 90% of cars are UK EV.....current predictions say no more than 25% of cars on UK roads will be EV even by 2035....so it will be a slow ramping up for decades yet.....its not like you cant drive your ICE car or buy fuel for it after 1st Jan 2035!!

I do agree that they cost too much and deprecate too fast.....but most people buy cars on PCP....so that's not really an issue....bigger monthly payment aside.
At the end of the day mankind produces too much carbon....an EV in its life (building, use and disposal) will produce about 60% less CO that an ICE car which will get higher as we source more leccy from renewables. Its true that if the UK went 100% EV tomorrow that the difference to global CO would not be measurable.....but others will follow. Just a pity that any improvements us drivers make will be eaten up by global industry producing more and more "stuff" that no one needs.....im talking to you China....and others.
The Aussie is hardly an ideal reference....he lives in a massive empty country where an EV is a far less practical choice than crowded little UK...where nothing is more than a days drive away.

I have a feeling that this is another thread I will be reading....but not posting. Some people just don't like EVs.....and no amount of logic and facts about there use will change their minds (like me).....but making up lots of nonsense about them to discourage others seems a waste of time.

 

[BTB 500]

Where we are unable to discern the viability is that the taxation of using EV's has yet to evolve.

Even now the cost/benefit case isn't really there for a private owner who isn't a city-dweller ... the price premium of an EV (whether up-front purchase or monthly lease cost) would buy a lot of fuel for an equivalent ICE car.

I'm not anti-EV at all and would happily have a small one for local trips, but that's a luxury I can't afford.

 

[m80]

I do agree that they cost too much and deprecate too fast.....but most people buy cars on PCP....so that's not really an issue....bigger monthly payment aside.

The 2nd hand market viability is going to be a great driver.
Traditionally those new cars get passed on, and another new car then bought.
So far it seems that a few years down the road, that the battery pack degradation make EV's uneconomical to keep on the road (perceived fact).

We own a 2009 2.2CDI 211 (approaching 140k miles), and a 2014 2.2CDI Viano (190k miles).
They are being penalised economically to convince me that they increasingly less viable.
The Viano doesn't have a reasonable EV replacement (due to range), the 211 could easily be replaced by EV as it is a commute car. But (for now) there isn't an economic argument to replace.

When will people feel confident in buying 2nd hand EV's that can compete with the longevity of our 2 mo mo's?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Let's have some respect for an industry which has persuaded Governments that it can solve the CO2 crisis by charging customers more for its products, as long as Governments reduce the taxes on its products.

Sadly, it hasn't persuaded its customers that its products are desirable, drive well or just "worth the money?"

Where's the EV that's better than an E Class, a 3 series or a VW MQB (Golf platform) ?

In the meantime do what the public is already doing:

drive less, avoid cities, use public transport more, and drive a cleaner, newer smaller motor.

(But if you really want to reduce CO2, stop flying so much. Your family holidays are punching out more CO2 than your motor)

.

 

[Darrell]

I can’t say I dislike EV’s because I never owned one.
Will I ever get one? Probably not.

It’s all very simple.

 

[Darrell]

Let's have some respect for an industry which has persuaded Governments that it can solve the CO2 crisis by charging customers more for its products, as long as Governments reduce the taxes on its products.

Sadly, it hasn't persuaded its customers that its products are desirable, drive well or just "worth the money?"

Where's the EV that's better than an E Class, a 3 series or a VW MQB (Golf platform) ?

In the meantime do what the public is already doing:

drive less, avoid cities, use public transport more, and drive a cleaner, newer smaller motor.

(But if you really want to reduce CO2, stop flying so much. Your family holidays are punching out more CO2 than your motor)

.

Use public transport more. Righty Ho.

Pictured: Hero schoolgirl, 15, stabbed to death in Croydon 'when she stepped in to protect her friend'

A hero schoolgirl who was stabbed to death while protecting her friend from an ex has been identified as tributes were paid to the “beautiful soul”.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[Mactech]

Oh! I love these fact or fiction threads, but who is going to judge the validity of anything posted

I'll start with some facts (as seen from my perspective!) and you can read into it what you like.

• I own both and EV and one of those terrible 'wood burning' diesel things. Each fulfil a specific role in the household. One for mainly short hops, one for the longer journeys. This allows both of us to stay mobile when we are not actually in the same place.
• The EV costs very slightly more to insure than the IC car, despite it being of lower current value.
• I find myself in a house that (if 'driven' correctly) is energy neutral. It will also supply about half the required energy of the EV at a very low rate.
• After spending about 2 weeks of my year above 35k feet for a good percentage of my life, I now have little desire to board an aircraft, and have not done so for 7 years.
• I bought an EV because it was one of the very few cars my wife felt was quirky enough to float her boat, and because I like and understand carbon cars. I would not buy a new one, but at 2 years old, 5k miles, still in warranty and half new price it seemed good value.
• My fuel costs for the EV have averaged less than £5 a week in the 3 months and 1500 miles I have owned it.
• I'm of Scottish decent and house and car purchases have had more to do with what I like than a desire to save the planet, it's just lucky that sometimes those things are not mutually exclusive.

I don't know where that leaves me....except in Norfolk!

 

[ALFAitalia]

The 2nd hand market viability is going to be a great driver.
Traditionally those new cars get passed on, and another new car then bought.
So far it seems that a few years down the road, that the battery pack degradation make EV's uneconomical to keep on the road (perceived fact).


When will people feel confident in buying 2nd hand EV's that can compete with the longevity of our 2 mo mo's?

Tesla claim 200 to 300,000 miles from their batteries....so I'm sure others cant be far behind. Battery tech is improving all the time. Look at Toyotas soon to be released battery. Not many ICE get past 200,000 miles. Sure you get the odd early death.....just like ICE cars do....I was only just reading thread on this very forum about an E63 engine that terminally expired at 36 ish thousand miles.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I bought an EV because it was one of the very few cars my wife felt was quirky enough to float her boat, and because I like and understand carbon cars. I would not buy a new one, but at 2 years old, 5k miles, still in warranty and half new price it seemed good value.

The role of the wife is crucial

Steve Cropley has been muttering on about experimenting with an EV after selling his Camper, and was about to jump into an i3S.

Plan scuppered, allegedly, because "The Steering Committee" wasn't on board.

Other factors may have been at play - like his recent test drive ride - but The Wife is always a good excuse.

("Can't get away, to marry you today. My Wife won't let me" - from "Waiting at the Church" 1906)

 

[Darrell]

Some ‘blokes’ need to get a backbone.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Use public transport more. Righty Ho.
View attachment 148869

Pictured: Hero schoolgirl, 15, stabbed to death in Croydon 'when she stepped in to protect her friend'

A hero schoolgirl who was stabbed to death while protecting her friend from an ex has been identified as tributes were paid to the “beautiful soul”.

www.lbc.co.uk

16 year old black kids in Croydon are going to kill one another no matter what transport they use to get to school.

London buses sustain just three serious injuries for every million journeys. If you're talking safety, the bus wins - hands down - every time.

Want to see your teenager maimed or killed while going somewhere? Put her in a car, as passenger or driver. Twas ever thus. In every nation

 

[ALFAitalia]

@Darrell
Quite.......my wife would only have anything to say about my choice of main car if I was looking as something too small as its my car we use on the family holidays....so it needs to carry three a luggage for same.....but other than that its up to me....its my car paid for with my money. She drives what she wants (an A Class ....but looking to soon to be changed for a Scirocco....could be worse!) and I drive what I want. As long as that's OK with you Darling!!

 

[Darrell]

16 year old black kids in Croydon are going to kill one another no matter what transport they use to get to school.

London buses sustain just three serious injuries for every million journeys. If you're talking safety, the bus wins - hands down - every time.

Want to see your teenager maimed or killed while going somewhere? Put her in a car, as passenger or driver. Twas ever thus. In every nation

It was supposed to be tongue in cheek.

 

[markjay]

Use public transport more. Righty Ho.
View attachment 148869

Pictured: Hero schoolgirl, 15, stabbed to death in Croydon 'when she stepped in to protect her friend'

A hero schoolgirl who was stabbed to death while protecting her friend from an ex has been identified as tributes were paid to the “beautiful soul”.

www.lbc.co.uk

Pedestrians also get knived in London - should we all stop walking and only drive in our cars everywhere?

This was the case when I worked in West Africa in the nineties... and I'm told it also applies today in many central and south American countries.

But is London really that bad? .

 

[Darrell]

But is London really that bad? .

I think it’s pretty bad to be honest.

My wife drives whenever she can or uses Thameslink which isn’t cheap.
Cheap transport (the bus) is not a pleasant experience in my or her opinion. There are some real scuzzers on the bus these days.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Some ‘blokes’ need to get a backbone.

Not a good comment about Steve. Five decades as a typewriter jockey has left its mark on his 70 year old spine.

In his defence, the editor of Autocar has access to a phenomenal set of motors, while running a very nice Alpine A110 on his own account, so it's hard to justify pouring cash into yet another depreciating asset to sit at home 99% of the time.

Even if his Dino juice runaround occasionally "fails to proceed." The cause: a fuel pump. (Known issue on the Alpine) Not a problem on an EV.

 

[Deleted member 55947]

Back on topic so here's a fact.
The majority of drivers would be more inconvienienced charging their car than filling it up with fuel as around 60% of the population live in a property without a driveway or garage

 

[clk320x]

Another one of these threads