The EV fact thread

[markjay]

The 5K was for a new DPF plus an ADBLU injector all inc VAT and after a 5% discount on parts and labour.

Fingers crossed for you, but sadly any repair to do with AdBlue tends to be the beginning of a long and expensive saga rather the end of it. Personally, I'd get rid of the van as soon as the EML is our, but best of luck if you decide to chance it and keep it.

 

[BTB 500]

Fingers crossed for you, but sadly any repair to do with AdBlue tends to be the beginning of a long and expensive saga rather the end of it. Personally, I'd get rid of the van as soon as the EML is our, but best of luck if you decide to chance it and keep it.

Problem is that for many applications an EU6 diesel is the only viable option right now.

 

[markjay]

Problem is that for many applications an EU6 diesel is the only viable option right now.

What can I say? Out of the frying pan into the fire....

 

[BTB 500]

What can I say? Out of the frying pan into the fire....

Exactly. We've been putting off replacing our 17 year old EU4 Vito as long as possible in the hope that a sensible alternative will appear.

The problem is that vans are designed for companies who run them for 3 years under warranty then get rid of them. Bit expensive for a private owner (or small trader) to do this, and the last time I looked the only leases available were company ones.

 

[Trickythemerc]

We bought the vans at the start of covid to get away from the unreliable and expensive to repair Sprinters we had. In contrast we have a 2011 Ducato curtainsider with sleeper pod that has 329,000 on it. Been all over Europe with it, last long drive was Romania and Latvia. Apart from servicing and wear and tear including battery, clutch, starter motor it has never missed a beat. Euro4 engine of course, electric is not an option for us purely on range, we would spend more time charging them than driving. The old timer doesn't get out much these days, but still earns its keep on higher cube jobs. It was built to carry 6 euro pallets with 16 cubic meter volume.

 

[PXW]

PUBLIC SERVICE NOTICE

If you came here looking to discuss EV facts, then you should be aware that all EV discussion has migrated to the “Advice regarding driving to France and Switzerland” thread

 

[markjay]

PUBLIC SERVICE NOTICE

If you came here looking to discuss EV facts, then you should be aware that all EV discussion has migrated to the “Advice regarding driving to France and Switzerland” thread

What have I started.....?

 

[23 Romeo Tango]

Hi,

I hope this is the correct section. I’m thinking of taking a tour to the Swiss Alps, with some driving in France. Does anyone have any advice?

Note, I will driving a car with an internal combustion engine. I would have tried asking in the “Advice regarding driving to France and Switzerland” thread, but it seems all of the EV advisors are over there

 

[grober]

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/prices-evs-plug-in-hybrids-fall-chinese-city-shenzhen-state-planner-says-2024-04-22/

This domestic oversupply of Chinese EVs has led to fears in the US and Europe of "dumping" excess Chinese model production in external markets leading to undercutting prices of their own domestically produced models-PROMPTING TALK of import Quotas or Tariffs!

 

[190]

EV sales are in serious trouble with desperation setting in no doubt because of the potential quota fines. If anyone wants a new small EV as a 2nd car the prices have fallen through the floor. Even the Chinese can't compete at these prices. They seem to be mostly Stellantis - Peugeot, Vauxhall or Fiat. The big dealers like Arnold Clark are full of pre-registered and brand new cars at huge discounts. It blows the "too expensive" excuse out of the water.

 

[st13phil]

They seem to be mostly Stellantis - Peugeot, Vauxhall or Fiat.

Indeed. There are a raft of Peugeot e-2008's on offer brand new, unregistered, at 30-35% discount from list bringing them down from around £40k to circa £26k otr.

Methinks the prospect of a £15k penalty for every car not sold to reach the 22% Zero Emissions Mandate is causing a degree of consternation amongst manufacturers.

 

[BTB 500]

EV sales are in serious trouble with desperation setting in no doubt because of the potential quota fines. If anyone wants a new small EV as a 2nd car the prices have fallen through the floor. Even the Chinese can't compete at these prices. They seem to be mostly Stellantis - Peugeot, Vauxhall or Fiat. The big dealers like Arnold Clark are full of pre-registered and brand new cars at huge discounts. It blows the "too expensive" excuse out of the water.

View attachment 155943

Bad luck to anyone who bought one late last year at full price (or close) though. This also suggests the poor recent sales figures are even worse than they appear (they'd have included these pre-registered cars, which hadn't actually been sold).

As mentioned Fiat/Stellantis have just extended production of the petrol Panda until 2030 and are now looking at making a petrol version of the electric Fiat 500e to sell once new EU regs. mean they can no longer sell the current petrol 500 (not related to the 500e - it's an older design, built in Poland). And a couple of weeks ago VW reported global ICE sales up 4% for Q1 and BEV sales down 3% (European BEV sales down by 24%).

 

[BTB 500]

Indeed. There are a raft of Peugeot e-2008's on offer brand new, unregistered, at 30-35% discount from list bringing them down from around £40k to circa £26k otr.

Methinks the prospect of a £15k penalty for every car not sold to reach the 22% Zero Emissions Mandate is causing a degree of consternation amongst manufacturers.

Manufacturers are even further off achieving the zero emissions sales quota for vans - it's 10% this year, and so far they've achieved 5.5%.

The EU were talking about suspending the quotas and pushing synthetic fuels ... something has to happen or the motor industry will be in deep trouble financially. Which would potentially be rather good for the Chinese manufacturers?

 

[st13phil]

something has to happen or the motor industry will be in deep trouble financially. Which would potentially be rather good for the Chinese manufacturers?

Exactly. EU and UK politicians either have an agenda to destroy the motor manufacturers in their countries, or they are going to have to wake up to the reality of the market.

 

[ALFAitalia]

If they don't build ICE cars then they will meet their quota as people will have no choice........much as I don't like that , its going to be the only way they make target.....its already happening looking at how little choice there is ICE car wise.
People on here suggesting synthetic or hydrogen need to look into it further into it ....then they would realise that its just not a viable alternative.....both practically/volume or environment/climate wise for cars.....HGV and air travel?....... maybe.

 

[st13phil]

If they don't build ICE cars then they will meet their quota as people will have no choice........much as I don't like that , its going to be the only way they make target.

I agree, but that gives the manufactures a real cost recovery headache - at least in the short to medium term - due to reduced volumes. And it actually chimes with Mercedes-Benz's strategy to exit the higher volume smaller car sector as it allows them to maximise the margin per unit on high-end cars. It doesn't bode well for the likes of VW and other volume manufacturers though.

My guess is that we will see manufacturers increasing the price of their ICE offerings (as well as reducing model choice) and governments both increasing taxes on petrol / diesel plus cajoling (by way of financial inducements) the insurance sector to disadvantage ICE cars in favour of EV's. Otherwise their entire policy is on the rocks.

 

[markjay]

Bad luck to anyone who bought one late last year at full price (or close) though. This also suggests the poor recent sales figures are even worse than they appear (they'd have included these pre-registered cars, which hadn't actually been sold)....

This is very true. Making new EVs more affordable will inevitably mean massive depreciation for existing cars, that will affect second hand values and hit hard those who bought their EVs before prices came down. I have no doubt that we will see more YouTube videos of owners complaining about massive losses on their one or two years old EVs.

This is why I was fine with getting an EV on a (business) lease - the future value is of no concern to me and I know exactly what my cost is over the 4-years lease period.

However, car manufacturers losing money due to environmental legislation isn't great news for the economy - ultimately, it will affect jobs in manufacturing, car dealerships, motor insurance and finance providers, etc.

 

[BTB 500]

If they don't build ICE cars then they will meet their quota as people will have no choice........much as I don't like that , its going to be the only way they make target.....its already happening looking at how little choice there is ICE car wise.

Currently it seems people are buying hybrids as these are readily available new. No range anxiety ever, and PHEVs have the same ability to make short local trips on cheap/free electric power as a BEV.

People on here suggesting synthetic or hydrogen need to look into it further into it

As mentioned it was the EU authorities I was talking about. They're looking at allowing registration of new ICE vehicles after 2035 for use with synthetic fuels that aren't "100% climate neutral". Allowing 70% carbon neutral fuels is one option under discussion.

 

[ALFAitalia]

 

[Dryce]

EV sales are in serious trouble with desperation setting in no doubt because of the potential quota fines. If anyone wants a new small EV as a 2nd car the prices have fallen through the floor.

We're maybe getting to the point on small EV pricing that we should have been at from the start - the problem is whether it is economically sustainable for the manufacturers.