The EV fact thread

[markjay]

We're maybe getting to the point on small EV pricing that we should have been at from the start - the problem is whether it is economically sustainable for the manufacturers.

It gets worse. Remember the old saying "car manufacturers don't make money from selling new cars, they make money from servicing"? Well, this is going to be a double whammy for them.

 

[markjay]

I just read that the 2024 Tesla Model-Y RWD with the 79kWh battery has a WLTP range of 373 miles... impressive.

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[ALFAitalia]

It gets worse. Remember the old saying "car manufacturers don't make money from selling new cars, they make money from servicing"? Well, this is going to be a double whammy for them.

Thai was never true.... manufacturers don't make anything from servicing...bar the bit they make on trade parts......its the dealers that make the money on servicing..... and the retail margin on the parts.

 

[clk320x]

Model 3 Performance (Refresh) just launched

£59k new - 2.9s 0-60 and WLTP of 328 miles range.with 20” alloys… Adaptive suspension too.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

If they don't build ICE cars then they will meet their quota as people will have no choice........much as I don't like that , its going to be the only way they make target.....its already happening looking at how little choice there is ICE car wise.

It’s not a coincidence, it’s by design. That’s the reason for the quotas and associated penalties exist.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Japanese and South Korean car manufacturers use very little foreign parts, and their cars will typically have little or no Chinese-made parts. So if you are concerned, then buy an EV or Hybrid from Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Suzuki, Subaru, Kia, or Hyundai, and you'll be safe from Chinese spying.

(I would have included Daihatsu and Mitsubishi, but I don't think they are currently available in the UK?)

When Hondas were in Swindon Chinese parts went into their cars, along with parts from the USA , Taiwan , Romania.........

 

[poormansporsche]

Apologies. A long winded post re the "60 mph" thing.

Not a factual post in any way shape or form just my observations driving upwards of 12 hours per day in a vehicle speed limited to 63 mph which gives a real world GPS maximum speed of 61 mph.

Cars that travel at a constant 60 mph (58 mph in reality) are a non stop pain in the ar£e for me so I take notice of them probably more than other people. Also I am slightly autistic and have a educational background in statistical analysis so this gives you a good idea how I record things in my brain !

For the next paragraph I will refer to minicabs as PHV which has nothing to do with EVs or Phevs or Hybrids.

Driving on the Southern section of the M25 / M20 / M2 / M23 the absolute majority of "I will drive at 60 mph no matter what and will either sit behind lorries doing 57 mph or do the longest overtaking manoeuvre in recorded history at 58 mph" cars are PHVs. Everyone of these PHV are either a Prius, Hybrid Corolla or a old shape Ionic and latterly the car of choice is a MG EV5 SW. Strangely I never see a diesel Superb PHV doing 60, these are in the outside lane doing 80 mph. I really don't understand the PHV 60 mph thing as surely "time is money".

I am pretty sure that most people's view of EVs doing 60 mph is skewed by the PHV minicabs brigade.

I do see a fair few non minicabs oblivious EVs that will not go over 60 mph and these are generally VW IDs Skoda whatevers but this is a substantially smaller amount than the Yaris / Jazz or lately small Kia / Hyundai box things ICE cars poodling along at whatever completely inappropriate low speed (or lane !) takes their oblivious fancy.

My next observation is that the majority of Tesla Drivers I meet are complete bell ends. I have a complete understanding of the performance and acceleration of my van and very rarely go into the middle or outside lanes except when overtaking lorries or 58 mph slowies. Tesla drivers being pricks has nothing to with them being EVs it's just that the Tesla has replaced the Cavalier SRI, Mondeo, A4, 320d as the company car knobs chariot of choice. I see plenty of other MB, BMW, Audi ICE knobs but the proportion of Tesla knobs is the highest of the lot.

So from my experience, I do not think the EV 60 mph at this current moment in time is a thing especially compared to the overwhelming bad driving of the majority of selfish buggers on the road.

I will probably add more as it comes to me

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Also non-scientific observation, my trip to work involves a 20 mile stretch of motorway or a 30 mile stretch of dual carriageway (depending upon route), so I do either 40 or 60 miles per day of multi lane NSL driving.

It’s very rare to see a car travelling at noticeably more than 70 mph. Most cars travel at between 60 mph and 70 mph regardless of lane. EVs are typically in the outer lanes, and it’s quite rare to overtake an EV.

I don’t really see much evidence of people choosing a different cruising speed based upon drive train, however there might be patterns for other attributes.

Younger drivers tend to drive more quickly than older drivers. Larger and common company cars tend to cruise faster than smaller and common privately owned cars. Obviously modified cars and EVs tend to accelerate quicker than the rest.

I’ve asked friends and colleagues whether they drive more slowly in their EVs than ICE and the answer is no, because if they need to stop and charger then they’ll stop and charge, just like they stop and refill in an ICE.

Interestingly a few said that the only time that they would drive slowly might be if there’s a possibility that they can make it to their destination or preferred charging point and slowing down ensures they can, but they’d do that in an ICE too.

 

[poormansporsche]

Oh and a couple of eyeball statistics from my 33 years of driving average 50k a year.

Car model to which I have the most near accidents, only avoided by my superior driving foresight ......

White Nissan Jukes with "I'm a winner" sticker on bootlid.(This was every other car by my previous Business premises)

and


Car with highest proportion (100%) of cars seen to driver being a *****.

Yellow A35s (strange one that as seen plenty of A45s with no issues, must be something about A35 drivers feeling inadequate in some way and needing to over compensate)

 

[poormansporsche]

I don’t really see much evidence of people choosing a different cruising speed based upon drive train, however there might be patterns for other attributes.

Nail on head there. It's been going on for years with the Prius Drivers but I think there is something in the Uber-a-like business model that rewards 60 mph driving that isn't there for normal mini cabbing. All these slow moving cabs has clouded the view in the moaning Minnie's eyes of EVs, especially now as the Prius is a lot more money than a cheap Chinese EV ......

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Nail on head there. It's been going on for years with the Prius Drivers but I think there is something in the Uber-a-like business model that rewards 60 mph driving that isn't there for normal mini cabbing. All these slow moving cabs has clouded the view in the moaning Minnie's eyes of EVs, especially now as the Prius is a lot more money than a cheap Chinese EV ......

I wonder whether the Uber (or equivalent) app assesses the quality and/or safety of their drivers using the GPS and accelerometers in their phone. Speed, harsh acceleration, harsh braking, rapid steering movements, excessive idling, etc.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I suspect that there may be a thought in some quarters that EV drivers are somehow different to ICE drivers and the rest of humanity. The reality is that most are probably also ICE drivers - or were until very recently.

I drive a very varied range of cars and my driving is pretty much the same in all of them in every day driving conditions. Big or small. Fast or slow. EV or ICE. I cruise at the same speed in them all, for any given conditions.

 

[Deleted member 55947]

I wonder whether the Uber (or equivalent) app assesses the quality and/or safety of their drivers using the GPS and accelerometers in their phone. Speed, harsh acceleration, harsh braking, rapid steering movements, excessive idling, etc.

A lot of them and private hire give real time updates on map systems, perhaps these devices could be used as evidence if speed limits are broken? Just a thought

 

[molgrips]

I’ve asked friends and colleagues whether they drive more slowly in their EVs than ICE and the answer is no, because if they need to stop and charger then they’ll stop and charge, just like they stop and refill in an ICE.

Nissan Leaf owners do drive slowly because their EVs are a bit rubbish.

I sometimes tow a caravan (with my Merc) and I never drive at 60mph, it's rubbish for me and everyone else. I drive however fast the lorries are going; if one slows down to 50 then I do 65 to pass it. However I don't do that in my EV, it's not worth it. I might try doing lorry speed one day to see if I can get to my nearest work and back on a single charge.

Re the market - I have long suspected that manufacturers have had EV prices higher than they needed to be whilst they could get them on company car schemes, and they've been reinvesting that money into increasing capacity when that market becomes saturated. There's a large group of people wishing to save money on fuel who obviously want to save money on purchase as well, so we need prices to fall, and I think the manufacturers know that. I think we are approaching that point now. Smaller cars will start to become more prevalent and cheaper.

 

[Ted]

Nissan Leaf owners do drive slowly because their EVs are a bit rubbish.

Sorry guys. I just had to.

 

[molgrips]

I bought one to replace my leased Hyundai Ioniq Electric. It wasn't a bad car, as such - pretty good around town. But on a longer trip the number of things that pissed me off started to become an issue. Mostly the ride, it was weirdly choppy front to back, and just uncomfortable. The range was also really unpredictable, you never knew what you'd get. So I sold it purely because I didn't like it - first time I've ever done that - and bought another Ioniq. The relief on sitting in the driver seat was huge. Ok so it's not a premium motor but it's shaped like a proper car, you sit in a proper driving position and it behaves like cars should.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Just adding somthing I noticed on a recent trip to Prague last week.

We spent 4 days there, in that time walked/trammed around virtually all the main part of the city and I have never seen so many AMGs before in my life.
However, I must have only spotted 1x Tesla and 2x other EVs. - Didnt see a single charging point across all of our travels. It was infact my other half who pointed this out to me.

Yes, I was in the main Tourist area for the most part, but we did take Trams in and out of the city on the main roads & highways (15mile journeys). Interesting that its being pushed on us so much, yet a rich and prosperous city like Prague barely had a single EV...!

 

[PXW]

Just adding somthing I noticed on a recent trip to Prague last week.

We spent 4 days there, in that time walked/trammed around virtually all the main part of the city and I have never seen so many AMGs before in my life.
However, I must have only spotted 1x Tesla and 2x other EVs. - Didnt see a single charging point across all of our travels. It was infact my other half who pointed this out to me.

Yes, I was in the main Tourist area for the most part, but we did take Trams in and out of the city on the main roads & highways (15mile journeys). Interesting that it’s being pushed on us so much, yet a rich and prosperous city like Prague barely had a single EV...!

Screen shot of charging point locations in central Prague. They may not be obvious if you are not looking for them!

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Ah fair enough. Doesn't explain virtually zero electric cars though!

 

[ToeKnee]

Ah fair enough. Doesn't explain virtually zero electric cars though!

Maybe they were all on charge at the charging stations you couldn't find?