The EV fact thread

[ChipChop]

@KillerHERTZ The map of Prague above is an area of around 135 square kilometers so not that many chargers for a European capital. Probably why you did not notice any.

 

[BTB 500]

In the news today:

DETROIT, April 30 (Reuters) - Elon Musk's abrupt decision to lay off employees who ran Tesla's electric vehicle charging business blindsided automakers gearing up to equip new EVs for customers to use the Tesla Supercharger network, industry officials and analysts said on Tuesday.

Tesla last week reported lower first-quarter profits and its first quarterly revenue decline since 2021. Even after a surge over the past week, Tesla shares are down about 26% for the year.

With sales of Tesla's EVs falling and profit margins under increasing pressure, Musk could be cutting Supercharger network spending to conserve cash for other projects with more growth potential, analysts said.

The Tesla Supercharger network could have significant value if Musk wanted to sell it, analysts said. Rival U.S. charging networks have struggled with reliability problems and do not have the scale or prime locations Tesla has locked in.

Seven large automakers, including Mercedes, GM, Stellantis, Honda, BMW and Hyundai-Kia last year formed a joint venture called Ionna to develop a fast-charging network to compete with the Tesla Supercharger network.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/musk-disbands-tesla-ev-charging-team-leaving-customers-dark-2024-04-30/

 

[Deleted member 55947]

This won’t help the cause though I’ve no idea whether the claims are true or not
A five-year-old Renault Zoe costs £9,100...but a new battery will set you back £24,124
The Mail

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

@KillerHERTZ The map of Prague above is an area of around 135 square kilometers so not that many chargers for a European capital. Probably why you did not notice any.

How many chargers would you expect to see in a central city area that's just 7 miles by 7 ?

Wouldn't most of Prague's 1.3 million population charge at home in the Burbs and far from the centre?

 

[markjay]

In the news today:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/musk-disbands-tesla-ev-charging-team-leaving-customers-dark-2024-04-30/

Interesting news. As always, Musk leaves everyone guessing:

' Musk subsequently said on X that the carmaker still plans to expand the Supercharger network, "just at a slower pace for new locations and more focus on 100% uptime and expansion of existing locations."

Andres Pinter, co-CEO of Bullet EV Charging Solutions, a supplier to the network, said, "As contractors for the Supercharger network, my team woke up to a sharp kick in the pants this morning."

"Tesla has already been awarded money under the federal government's NEVI program," he said, referring to the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure formula program to provide funding to states to deploy EV charging networks. "There's no way Mr. Musk would walk away from effectively free money. It may be possible Mr. Musk will reconstitute the EV charger team in bigger, badder, more Muskian way." '

Do tell, Mr Musk?

 

[KillerHERTZ]

How many chargers would you expect to see in a central city area that's just 7 miles by 7 ?

Wouldn't most of Prague's 1.3 million population charge at home in the Burbs and far from the centre?

Well, in most other cities I see charging points in most busy areas (in the UK).

The bigger thing which was noticible was the virtually total lack of Eletric vehicles of any nature. 3 I saw in total!

Just shows how much its being forced on the UK public compared to other countries.

Same last summer when I drove through France, Belguim, Holland and Germany, only saw a handful.

 

[BTB 500]

How many chargers would you expect to see in a central city area that's just 7 miles by 7 ?

For interest, from Zapmap a roughly equivalent area for London (135 sq km is 7.2 x 7.2 miles):

 

[clk320x]

Just shows how much its being forced on the UK public compared to other countries.

I’m not sure massive tax incentives can be classified as being ‘forced’? BIK has always been the case with company cars but EVs had this zero’d to incentivise the uptake.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

For interest, from Zapmap a roughly equivalent area for London (135 sq km is 7.2 x 7.2 miles):

View attachment 156258

At first glance, pretty similar, but does this really show the lamp-post chargers, and the actual size of the charging station - like this one down the road from me in Fulham?

 

[KillerHERTZ]

I’m not sure massive tax incentives can be classified as being ‘forced’? BIK has always been the case with company cars but EVs had this zero’d to incentivise the uptake.

Pro or Anti EV, We (the UK) are being forced into buying them, wether its the false 'green' claims, Tax breaks, the pending end of ICE deadlines, its forcing.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I’m not sure massive tax incentives can be classified as being ‘forced’? BIK has always been the case with company cars but EVs had this zero’d to incentivise the uptake.

Let's be clear, it's the EU that created the regulatory push to force car manufacturers to sell EV's across Europe, with fiddle able targets, and now the €15,000 fine for each vehicle sold beyond the EU limits in 2024.

The UK was a very slow follower in the EU's footsteps.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Pro or Anti EV, We (the UK) are being forced into buying them, wether its the false 'green' claims, Tax breaks, the pending end of ICE deadlines, its forcing.

We aren't being forced into buying them.

Manufacturers are being forced into selling EV's

But it's the manufacturers and the EU that created this game

- deliberately ignoring the very simple point that the fastest way for you and I to reduce our CO2 emissions is to electrify home heating and to reduce our flying.

 

[BTB 500]

At first glance, pretty similar, but does this really show the lamp-post chargers, and the actual size of the charging station - like this one down the road from me in Fulham?

I would guess those are just bigger charging sites. If you zoom in further a huge number of others appear - likely to be lamp post chargers? E.g:

 

[ChipChop]

How many chargers would you expect to see in a central city area that's just 7 miles by 7 ?

Wouldn't most of Prague's 1.3 million population charge at home in the Burbs and far from the centre?

No idea, but as MJ has mentioned Westminster has a plethora of lamppost chargers more than are shown on the Prague map i would assume. Mind you last time i was in Prague the locals were still driving around in Trabants.

Edit. 8000 ubitricity lamppost chargers in London apparently.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I would guess those are just bigger charging sites. If you zoom in further a huge number of others appear - likely to be lamp post chargers? E.g:

View attachment 156260

Good Grief !!

 

[BTB 500]

Good Grief !!

That's what I thought!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

That's what I thought!

It's almost as if the Councils have worked out some wicked wheeze to make money out of selling electricity.

 

[SmartAmg]

Pro or Anti EV, We (the UK) are being forced into buying them, wether its the false 'green' claims, Tax breaks, the pending end of ICE deadlines, its forcing.

When's yours arriving then, Karl.

 

[190]

It's almost as if the Councils have worked out some wicked wheeze to make money out of selling electricity.

Everyone is in it for the money which will have long term implications for chargers. If a petrol station doesn't make a profit, it closes as very many have. Why would EV chargers be any different once the fuss dies down. A local supermarket has 8 BP chargers of which I've never seen more than 2 in use. People buy petrol at the supermarket because it's the cheapest source. That hardly applies to EV charging in fact quite the opposite. They look very expensive to install to me. BP have already substantially scaled back their ambitions for installing chargers around the world because they are not making money. I'm not surprised, if I had an EV then using a public charger would be very much a distress purchase used only on long trips. Getting range anxiety going to the supermarket isn't going to happen to me or anyone with sense so I don't think we need too many public chargers at supermarkets and in cities, we need them on motorways and trunk routes where they will get used and turn a profit.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Everyone is in it for the money which will have long term implications for chargers. If a petrol station doesn't make a profit, it closes as very many have. Why would EV chargers be any different once the fuss dies down. A local supermarket has 8 BP chargers of which I've never seen more than 2 in use. People buy petrol at the supermarket because it's the cheapest source. That hardly applies to EV charging in fact quite the opposite. They look very expensive to install to me. BP have already substantially scaled back their ambitions for installing chargers around the world because they are not making money. I'm not surprised, if I had an EV then using a public charger would be very much a distress purchase used only on long trips. Getting range anxiety going to the supermarket isn't going to happen to me or anyone with sense so I don't think we need too many public chargers at supermarkets and in cities, we need them on motorways and trunk routes where they will get used and turn a profit.

Exactly, for most owners, a kerbside or charging station purchase is only going to be a "top up," not an "empty to full" purchase. (Empty to full being done at home or work.)

Not sure that Councils or their contracted suppliers will demolish chargers if they're not being used enough. The expense was in the charger fit-out, not the day to day operation.

Petrol stations: continuing to be closed for good reason. Land is too valuable to waste. 5,000 stations closed since over the last 25 years, so we're now down to 8,300. The only reason they're being kept open now is alcohol and food sales. There's hardly any profit in selling petrol or diesel.

It's a shame about BP cutting 100 jobs across eight countries, reducing the global workforce from 900 to 800 people in China, Germany, the UK and USA. But seriously, is cutting a dozen jobs in a country like France really "a substantial scaling back?"