The EV fact thread

[BTB 500]

Petrol stations: continuing to be closed for good reason. Land is too valuable to waste. 5,000 stations closed since over the last 25 years, so we're now down to 8,300. The only reason they're being kept open now is alcohol and food sales. There's hardly any profit in selling petrol or diesel.

Yep forecourt shops (often franchises now e.g. M&S at BP) have been the main source of income for many years.

One interesting thing is that the volume of fuel sold basically plateaued in 2017, despite a steady increase in the number of vehicles. Not sure that will be down to EVs ... certainly not 7 years ago. Older cars being replaced by newer ones with significantly lower fuel consumption? More home working? Combination of the three?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Yep forecourt shops (often franchises now e.g. M&S at BP) have been the main source of income for many years.

One interesting thing is that the volume of fuel sold basically plateaued in 2017, despite a steady increase in the number of vehicles. Not sure that will be down to EVs ... certainly not 7 years ago. Older cars being replaced by newer ones with significantly lower fuel consumption? More home working? Combination of the three?

View attachment 156274

Methinks we’re driving less distance although mpg has also improved.

Mr Khan will claim that it’s all his work

It horrifies me that kids don’t look forward to driving as much as we used to at their age

 

[clk320x]

Pro or Anti EV, We (the UK) are being forced into buying them, wether its the false 'green' claims, Tax breaks, the pending end of ICE deadlines, its forcing.

I respectfully disagree that any of those things constitute ’forcing’ - I would suggest they all ‘incentivise’ or ‘promote’…

If it became illegal to drive or own an ICE vehicle anymore then I would agree.

 

[Dryce]

I respectfully disagree that any of those things constitute ’forcing’ - I would suggest they all ‘incentivise’ or ‘promote’…

Being respectful about your diasagreement doesn't validate your lack of logic or perspective on the issue,

An incentive is a carrot.

A promotion is try a carrot now and get a discount on your next six months carrots.

Forcing is a stick - like putting up barriers and costs to use (LEZ in Scotland / ULEZ in London) and setting deadlines.

 

[clk320x]

Being respectful about your diasagreement doesn't validate your lack of logic or perspective on the issue,

An incentive is a carrot.

A promotion is try a carrot now and get a discount on your next six months carrots.

Forcing is a stick - like putting up barriers and costs to use (LEZ in Scotland / ULEZ in London) and setting deadlines.

You may have noticed I don’t usually reply to your messages - since I added you to the infamous ‘ignore list’ a while ago, however today my inquisitiveness got the better of me; and I hit the ‘show ignored content’…

Reading you reply reminded me why I took the initial decision.

Seeing as I’m on a long train home & have a few moments spare I’ll reply.

Firstly, which barriers are there against ICE cars as a whole at the moment? The only ‘barriers’ are against the most polluting ones in certain small areas of the country, Euro 6 diesels and most petrols are totally ‘barrierless’ even in ULEZ zones… Secondly, even a ULEZ zone isn’t forcing anyone to buy an EV - you can still drive a large amount ICE cars in as normal, and older oil burners can go in too at a cost - it’s totally fine to just buy a compliant ICE vehicle and continue if you don’t want to pay the charge. No one is being forced to buy an EV whatsoever by a LEZ/ULEZ zone - only a compliant car, whether that be an ICE or EV is the buyers choice.

Yes there are deadlines for manufacturing of NEW ICE cars, but no deadlines set for the running of existing ones as far as I can see?

It’s still not ‘forcing’ IMO until the only option of owning a car is an EV and ICE is banned completely in any way shape or form.

You’re silly jabs at a lack of logic and perspective do nothing to support your argument. But I’m sure you knew that.

Anyway - a nice way to pass a few mins.

 

[SmartAmg]

You may have noticed I don’t usually reply to your messages - since I added you to the infamous ‘ignore list’ a while ago, however today my inquisitiveness got the better of me; and I hit the ‘show ignored content’…

Reading you reply reminded me why I took the initial decision.

Seeing as I’m on a long train home & have a few moments spare I’ll reply.

Firstly, which barriers are there against ICE cars as a whole at the moment? The only ‘barriers’ are against the most polluting ones in certain small areas of the country, Euro 6 diesels and most petrols are totally ‘barrierless’ even in ULEZ zones… Secondly, even a ULEZ zone isn’t forcing anyone to buy an EV - you can still drive a large amount ICE cars in as normal, and older oil burners can go in too at a cost - it’s totally fine to just buy a compliant ICE vehicle and continue if you don’t want to pay the charge. No one is being forced to buy an EV whatsoever by a LEZ/ULEZ zone - only a compliant car, whether that be an ICE or EV is the buyers choice.

Yes there are deadlines for manufacturing of NEW ICE cars, but no deadlines set for the running of existing ones as far as I can see?

It’s still not ‘forcing’ IMO until the only option of owning a car is an EV and ICE is banned completely in any way shape or form.

You’re silly jabs at a lack of logic and perspective do nothing to support your argument. But I’m sure you knew that.

Anyway - a nice way to pass a few mins.

Absolutely agree.

 

[AMGeed]

What puzzles me is, how does paying £12 50 to use a non compliant vehicle inside the zone improve the air quality?
Surely it should be all or nothing?

 

[markjay]

What puzzles me is, how does paying £12 50 to use a non compliant vehicle inside the zone improve the air quality?
Surely it should be all or nothing?

In the same way that putting up the duty on tobacco reduces smoking.

The ULEZ charge is meant to deter people from driving into London in old Diesel cars.

As result, some people got rid of their old Diesel cars, some are using public transport instead of driving into London, some simply avoid unnecessary journeys altogether... and some - not as many though - keep on driving into London while paying the ULEZ charge.

That's how the ULEZ charge improves air quality.

 

[clk320x]

What puzzles me is, how does paying £12 50 to use a non compliant vehicle inside the zone improve the air quality?
Surely it should be all or nothing?

I agree with you - but the idea is people won’t want to pay £12.50 a day so will change cars, whilst giving those who only travel in once a month the option to keep their car as they lead to relatively little ‘damage’…

 

[SpikyMikey]

Electric car driver turned away from hospital car park

 

[SmartAmg]

Electric car driver turned away from hospital car park

Bloody ridiculous!

 

[markjay]

It's a well-known fact that fear sets in seconds, while trust takes years to build...

All it takes is a few clickbait articles and some viral scaremongering online and people start acting stupidly

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Tesla layoffs now rumoured to be heading towards 20%, not 10% as announced and handful of weeks ago.

So, instead of going back to Tesla 2022 staffing levels, isn't this heading towards 2021 staffing numbers? But still well ahead of 2020.

Article is Journalist rumour - no solid numbers out there, that I've seen.

As "some people" have been saying for some time, perhaps the traditional vehicle manufacturers, AND the Koreans AND the Chinese are finally having an impact on 2024 production plans?

Tesla (TSLA) launches another round of layoffs

Tesla (TSLA) launched another round of layoffs this weekend, with employees in wide-ranging roles getting their pink slip amid broader...

electrek.co

 

[markjay]

Great news to those who were complaining about the cost of new EVs:

Belgium's Ports Struggle with Surge of Chinese Electric Cars, Terminals Turn into Parking Lots

In 2022 alone, 3.4 million vehicles passed through these ports, illustrating the magnitude of the logistical challenge at hand.

www.logisticsinsider.in

Looks like RRPs will soon plummet.

Not great news for Tesla, though... although they compete at the other end of the market, the aftershock will be noticeable across the entire EV industry.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Great news to those who were complaining about the cost of new EVs:

Belgium's Ports Struggle with Surge of Chinese Electric Cars, Terminals Turn into Parking Lots

In 2022 alone, 3.4 million vehicles passed through these ports, illustrating the magnitude of the logistical challenge at hand.

www.logisticsinsider.in

Looks like RRPs will soon plummet.

Not great news for Tesla, though... although they compete at the other end of the market, the aftershock will be noticeable across the entire EV industry.

Interesting positioning, including the words “Chinese EV” in the headline is a great way to ensure clicks and shares.

Ultimately the capacity of the holding car parks at (and nearby) the ports determine the rate at which the cars are imported, a d so assuming they’re not double stacking them then the port the terminal is carrying the same or less than the capacity it was designed for.

The mix of manufacturers importing might be evolving but that’s not a new thing, nor is it a Chinese thing, nor is it an EV thing. For example Korean ICE imports will be several multiples more than they were say just 10 or 20 years ago, the rise of Kia and Hyundai has been remarkable.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The western car manufacturers - and especially European manufacturers - have known this moment has been coming. Most have been building cars in China with local Joint Ventures for many years so they are even better placed than even the best armchair expert to asses the risk.

If what people really want is low cost personal transport then the Chinese made EVs - whether manufactured for a western brand, an acquired western brand, or even a Chinese domestic brand - will sell well because they’ll be much more affordable and perfectly functional.

There’s a reason that premium and high performance brands sell so well in the UK - we have a high concentration of snobs, and people who worry what others might think of them. It will be interesting to see how much resitance comes from Great British Snobbery.

We know from pretty much every other type of manufactured goods, western people will buy Chinese products which are either “cheap”, in the name of a Western brand, or produced on behalf of a trusted western brand. I can’t see cars being much different to that.

 

[markjay]

I think the challenge for Western governments is that on one hand typically in such circumstances they would impose tariffs to protect local manufacturers from the Chinese overcapacity being dumped on the local market, but on the other hand they want to revive the stalling sales of new EVs......

 

[BTB 500]

The mix of manufacturers importing might be evolving but that’s not a new thing, nor is it a Chinese thing, nor is it an EV thing. For example Korean ICE imports will be several multiples more than they were say just 10 or 20 years ago, the rise of Kia and Hyundai has been remarkable.

And Romanian imports (Dacia).

 

[markjay]

And Romanian imports (Dacia).

I am currently in the South of Italy... plenty of Dacias about, including many Duster taxis, the latter suggests that they are robust and reliable cars (even if not the most sophisticated or comfortable).

 

[BTB 500]

I am currently in the South of Italy... plenty of Dacias about, including many Duster taxis, the latter suggests that they are robust and reliable cars (even if not the most sophisticated or comfortable).

They are quite common in mainland Europe - we'd always see a fair few when we went to Germany. They only started selling them in the UK about 10 years ago.