The EV fact thread

[190]

Here's a fact:

Pedestrians are over twice as likely to be in an accident and be killed by an EV compared to an IC. The obvious reason is that EV's are quieter and that pedestrians walk into the road without observation. Does that make EV's evil compared to IC's. Interesting then to compare media coverage of this fact. All seem to blame the EV rather than passing any comment at all on pedestrians lack of observation. Rational headlines would have been along the lines of : Pedestrians are twice as likely to walk out into the path of an EV because they are too quiet. That's the fact but no media outlet seems to address it directly.

The Daily Mail calls EV's silent killers

The Sun says: YOU are twice as likely to be run over by an electric car.

The Telegraph: Electric cars kill pedestrians at double the rate of petrol or diesel vehicles.

The Guardian: Electric cars are more likely to strike pedestrians than petrol or diesel vehicles, particularly in towns and cities

​

 

[PXW]

Here's a fact:

Pedestrians are over twice as likely to be in an accident and be killed by an EV compared to an IC. The obvious reason is that EV's are quieter and that pedestrians walk into the road without observation. Does that make EV's evil compared to IC's. Interesting then to compare media coverage of this fact. All seem to blame the EV rather than passing any comment at all on pedestrians lack of observation. Rational headlines would have been along the lines of : Pedestrians are twice as likely to walk out into the path of an EV because they are too quiet. That's the fact but no media outlet seems to address it directly.

The Daily Mail calls EV's silent killers

The Sun says: YOU are twice as likely to be run over by an electric car.

The Telegraph: Electric cars kill pedestrians at double the rate of petrol or diesel vehicles.

The Guardian: Electric cars are more likely to strike pedestrians than petrol or diesel vehicles, particularly in towns and cities

​

Not to mention that the sample date range was a) the period when EVs were very new and therefore unfamiliar and b) before the introduction of regulations requiring an external speaker to be fitted to make a noise below (I think) 15mph for precisely this reason.

Actually, prior to this change, a number of Tesla owners fitted a doorbell chime with the remote button kept in the car…so pedestrians wandering around unaware could be alerted with a gentle ding-dong rather than a more aggressive blast of the horn.

 

[markjay]

It's simple. They are acknowledging that purchasers might think that a pure EV would not be ideal for very long trips so they will lend you something "more suitable" in the form of a hybrid once or twice per year. They are trying to sell EV's by an attempt to overcome some customers range anxiety on the odd long holiday trip.

It's quite clever. They know people think that an EV would be ideal 99% of the time but worry about about that rare long trip.

I was thinking about this one.... I really can't see that there's a significant market for this type of offer, i.e. a selling pure-EV with a Hybrid loan. My guess is that it's part of their overall marketing strategy.

The issue is that for years, Toyota rejected pure-EVs, claimed that they are an ill-conceived idea, and that Hybrid is the way to go ('self charging EVs,' as they called them).

They are now forced to sell pure-EVs due to regulatory requirements in Europe. But simply praising their pure-EVs will contradict with the message from Toyota so far, i.e. that Hybrids are superior to pure-EVs.

The solution was (this is what I think, anyway) to offer the pure-EVs with a loan Hybrid option.... keeping the message coherent: i.e. that Toyota's pure-EVs are great cars, without compromising on their traditional market position so far that Hybrids are better.

If I am correct, then no other car manufacturer will be making a similar Hybrid loan offer, because no one else took such a strong position against pure-EV in the past.

 

[Petrol Pete]

All EV's should be fitted with a hornlike this ....and a defibrillator to revive the shocked pedestrian.

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[pioneercollector]

From my experiences of driving through Bath or any largish populated area the issue is not the fact that EV's are silent, it is the fact that idiots are either staring at there mobile devices and not looking at anything around them, wearing headphones and not paying any attention to what's around them or assuming that they now have the right of way at anytime over the moving traffic and just step out!

It is the poor sod that has to deal with the aftermath of the squishing i feel sorry for ( Evil motorist strikes again and all that ! ) All irrespective of the drivetrain........

 

[Ted]

In April 2014, the European Parliament approved legislation that requires the mandatory use of an Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System [de] (AVAS). Manufacturers must install an AVAS system in four-wheeled electric and hybrid electric vehicles that are approved from July 1, 2019, and to all new quiet electric and hybrid vehicles registered from July 2021. The vehicle must make a continuous noise level of at least 56 dBA (within 2 meters) if the car is going 20 km/h (12 mph) or slower, and a maximum of 75 dBA

 

[Bellow]

Couple of weeks back in a supermarket car park there was a Fiat 500 hybrid and while I was loading my shopping it moved and I only knew it had when the space it was in was empty and it was sat closer to the store. No warning sound at all. Ditto a mate moving his Tesla 3 no more than a couple of years ago. The Tesla was new at the time and the Fiat can't have been almost five years old. Did Fiat and Tesla not get the memo?

 

[190]

Did Fiat and Tesla not get the memo?

I'm sure they did but the minimum sound level in the legislation of 56dB is simply too low. One of the media articles comparing it to the level of a household fridge. They need something that won't blend into the background noise level of a supermarket carpark or roadway which would require at least 70 - 80 db and it would require to be varied with speed as tyre noise would swamp 56dB almost as soon as the car was moving.

 

[Bellow]

I'm sure they did but the minimum sound level in the legislation of 56dB is simply too low. One of the media articles comparing it to the level of a household fridge. They need something that won't blend into the background noise level of a supermarket carpark or roadway which would require at least 70 - 80 db and it would require to be varied with speed as tyre noise would swamp 56dB almost as soon as the car was moving.

I swear neither of those cars made even a 56dB noise. I was right beside both - I couldn't have not heard. Wondering if there's a minimum roadspeed before it kicks in?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Not to mention that the sample date range was a) the period when EVs were very new and therefore unfamiliar and b) before the introduction of regulations requiring an external speaker to be fitted to make a noise below (I think) 15mph for precisely this reason.

Actually, prior to this change, a number of Tesla owners fitted a doorbell chime with the remote button kept in the car…so pedestrians wandering around unaware could be alerted with a gentle ding-dong rather than a more aggressive blast of the horn.

The number of pedestrians who gently meander along in the centre of lanes in car parks and even quiet roads - with me creeping behind them in a ridiculously loud car - never ceases to amaze me.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Converted my car to electric using the motor from a tumble drier, it wouldn't start at first, but once I realised I had left the door open I was able to take it for a spin.

 

[SmartAmg]

Converted my car to electric using the motor from a tumble drier, it wouldn't start at first, but once I realised I had left the door open I was able to take it for a spin.

Very dry.

 

[Flyinspanner]

I’ve been looking at Mitsubishi Outlander PHEVs

There are still plenty of service outlets extant.

Anyone got one? Happy with it?

 

[ALFAitalia]

Not bad cars....not a great tow cars though. Only 1500 kg. Non phev can do 2000kg.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Today I managed a really rather incredible 7.3 miles per kWh in the little Fiat 500e - and in total today I did three journeys with the trip computer displaying more than 7 miles per kWh.

I also charged it at an Instavolt charger for the first time. I didn’t need to recharge it but I was keen to get some more real life experience of using the public charging infrastructure.

There were four 50 kW chargers at a petrol station, all working, and all available. I had never used one before, didn’t have the app, and it took 20 seconds to plug in and start charging.

It was relatively pricey at 85p per kW and so we only left it connected for a short while, but even so it charged from 51% to 90% - I wish I had timed it now, but couldn’t have been more than 15 minutes.

Overall another positive experience.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

So now if I buy an EV, but need to drive to the south of France/Morocco/Timbuktu without stopping and without any charge stations, Lexus has a solution.

Lexus Reserve | Lexus UK

Buy a new or used Lexus All-Electric car, and enjoy complimentary access to a Lexus Hybrid for up to 42 days over a 3 year period.

www.lexus.co.uk

Alternatively just drive a great ICE car, take a plane to fly thousands of miles and rent an EV when you get there.

Remembering that by one decent flying holiday you’ll produce more CO2 than you could save by converting to EV for a year

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Here's a fact:

Pedestrians are over twice as likely to be in an accident and be killed by an EV compared to an IC. The obvious reason is that EV's are quieter and that pedestrians walk into the road without observation. Does that make EV's evil compared to IC's. Interesting then to compare media coverage of this fact. All seem to blame the EV rather than passing any comment at all on pedestrians lack of observation. Rational headlines would have been along the lines of : Pedestrians are twice as likely to walk out into the path of an EV because they are too quiet. That's the fact but no media outlet seems to address it directly.

The Daily Mail calls EV's silent killers

The Sun says: YOU are twice as likely to be run over by an electric car.

The Telegraph: Electric cars kill pedestrians at double the rate of petrol or diesel vehicles.

The Guardian: Electric cars are more likely to strike pedestrians than petrol or diesel vehicles, particularly in towns and cities

​

Proving, once again, that people don’t understand statistics.

But journalists understand clickbait

Give it a moment’s thought. Who drives EV’s and why?

What do boring old safe drivers like you and I drive?

What are high mileage, long hour taxi drivers driving in city centres these days?

To compare one against the other you need to look at the demographics rather than just the raw numbers

 

[Mactech]

Today I managed a really rather incredible 7.3 miles per kWh in the little Fiat 500e - and in total today I did three journeys with the trip computer displaying more than 7 miles per kWh.

I also charged it at an Instavolt charger for the first time. I didn’t need to recharge it but I was keen to get some more real life experience of using the public charging infrastructure.

There were four 50 kW chargers at a petrol station, all working, and all available. I had never used one before, didn’t have the app, and it took 20 seconds to plug in and start charging.

It was relatively pricey at 85p per kW and so we only left it connected for a short while, but even so it charged from 51% to 90% - I wish I had timed it now, but couldn’t have been more than 15 minutes.

Overall another positive experience.

You be careful! Your inner eco-man is beginning so show
My i3 is now showing over 6 miles per kWh average for the last month and my wife declared the ride quality 'much better!' after a swap back to standard springs with the Evolve dampers, having done a 70 mile round trip to the coast on Thursday
Are you sure nobody had stolen the cables on the Instavolt chargers....?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

You be careful! Your inner eco-man is beginning so show
My i3 is now showing over 6 miles per kWh average for the last month and my wife declared the ride quality 'much better!' after a swap back to standard springs with the Evolve dampers, having done a 70 mile round trip to the coast on Thursday
Are you sure nobody had stolen the cables on the Instavolt chargers....?

Averaging 6 miles per kWh over the course of a month is remarkable. Maybe I need to tweak the suspension now too

 

[markjay]

Proving, once again, that people don’t understand statistics.

But journalists understand clickbait

Give it a moment’s thought. Who drives EV’s and why?

What do boring old safe drivers like you and I drive?

What are high mileage, long hour taxi drivers driving in city centres these days?

To compare one against the other you need to look at the demographics rather than just the raw numbers

Personally, as a pedestrian I've never had a close encounter with an EV, however I did have quite a few with old-fashioned cyclists, and more recently also with e-scooters and e-bikes, especially when ridden on the pavement.