The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

Personally, as a pedestrian I've never had a close encounter with an EV, however I did have quite a few with old-fashioned cyclists, and more recently also with e-scooters and e-bikes, especially when ridden on the pavement.

A friend has - genuinely - just spent five nights in hospital as a result of walking downstairs while reading work emails.

No silent EVs involved

 

[markjay]

Here's a fact:

Pedestrians are over twice as likely to be in an accident and be killed by an EV compared to an IC. The obvious reason is that EV's are quieter and that pedestrians walk into the road without observation. Does that make EV's evil compared to IC's. Interesting then to compare media coverage of this fact. All seem to blame the EV rather than passing any comment at all on pedestrians lack of observation. Rational headlines would have been along the lines of : Pedestrians are twice as likely to walk out into the path of an EV because they are too quiet. That's the fact but no media outlet seems to address it directly.

The Daily Mail calls EV's silent killers

The Sun says: YOU are twice as likely to be run over by an electric car.

The Telegraph: Electric cars kill pedestrians at double the rate of petrol or diesel vehicles.

The Guardian: Electric cars are more likely to strike pedestrians than petrol or diesel vehicles, particularly in towns and cities

​

The actual situation may be worse.

With most Ubers these days being Hybrid (the Prius seems particularly popular), there will be plenty of Hybrid cars on the roads in city centres, and presumably the Hybrids were not considered to be an EV for the purpose of the study because it wouldn't be recorded if the car was powered by the petrol engine or by the electric motor at the time of the collision. But assuming that at least some of the non-EV cars in the study were Hybrids, and that at least some of them were (quietly) powered by the electric motor at the time of the collision, then the actual number of pedestrians hit by silent cars is even higher.

EDIT: BTW I had a close shave with a Rolls back in the eighties... they are very quiet when they start moving from standstill.

 

[markjay]

OK, I just Googled it, and it says that:

"They found that 5.16 people on average were hit by an electric or hybrid car for every 100 million miles that type of vehicle had driven, compared with 2.4 people for petrol and diesel cars."

So, I got it wrong when I assumed that the study did not count Hybrids as EVs, but the question remains: how do they know if the Hybrid car was powered by the petrol engine, or by the electric motor, at the time of the collision?

 

[Ted]

Hybrids now have to have the alert.
Our 2021 c-hr makes a (stupid) sound like a spaceship at low speeds on electric.

 

[Bellow]

Hybrids now have to have the alert.
Our 2021 c-hr makes a (stupid) sound like a spaceship at low speeds on electric.

From the moment the wheels are turning or is there a speed threshold before it begins?

 

[markjay]

And, BTW, the figures in study were adjusted to miles driven, so no, you're not "twice as likely to be killed by an electric car"... not until the total mikeage driven by electric vehicles becomes equal to that of ICE cars, anyway.

 

[190]

Back on the topic of what's not included in EV vs pedestrian accidents.

I'll wager that electric scooters have injured quite few pedestrians. Even the government admits that electric sooter accidents in general are going unrecorded. Of the accidents that resulted in a visit to hospital only 8.6% made it into road traffic accident statistics and even then there doesn't seem to be break down of how many involved pedestrians.

Here's a statistic that is entirely predictable - more than half of e-scooter accidents that did get recorded occurred outside the trail areas i.e. they were being ridden illegally. Given that is the recorded figure, you can assume the real % is much higher.

Tiny proportion of e-scooter injuries appear in official UK data

 

[Ted]

From the moment the wheels are turning or is there a speed threshold before it begins?

On ours, as soon as the wheels are turning

 

[SmartAmg]

OK, I just Googled it, and it says that:

"They found that 5.16 people on average were hit by an electric or hybrid car for every 100 million miles that type of vehicle had driven, compared with 2.4 people for petrol and diesel cars."

What does, .16 or .4 of a person look like.

 

[Dryce]

Today I managed a really rather incredible 7.3 miles per kWh in the little Fiat 500e - and in total today I did three journeys with the trip computer displaying more than 7 miles per kWh.

This maybe is a practical demonstration of a fundamental issue. An EV with long range and therefore a heavy battery and heavier car to contain it suffers not just the heavier battery but the kWh penalty of hauling it.

While that in itself is depressing - basically in an EV the battery effectively eats its own capacity as it get larger - it also suggests that any improvement in battery technology will potentially deliver twice over. So small but sufficiently significant battery developments will deliver noticeable benefits.

 

[markjay]

This maybe is a practical demonstration of a fundamental issue. An EV with long range and therefore a heavy battery and heavier car to contain it suffers not just the heavier battery but the kWh penalty of hauling it.

While that in itself is depressing - basically in an EV the battery effectively eats its own capacity as it get larger - it also suggests that any improvement in battery technology will potentially deliver twice over. So small but sufficiently significant battery developments will deliver noticeable benefits.

This is true, also for other factors, for example a bigger IC engine generates more power (everything else being equal), but then there's a weight penalty - and the same goes for the fuel tank, the bigger the tank the longer the range but the extra weight has a negative affect on fuel consumption. In either case, however, there's a net gain, but only up to a point... which is one reason why we don't see many sport cars with 20L engines.....

 

[markjay]

What we should also remember, though, is that in order to keep a mass in motion at constant speed we need to overcome friction with the road and with the air, and this depends on design variables that are not related to weight. The weight only comes into effect when accelerating. And so the range of an EV driven in city traffic will be more susceptible to weight than one driven on motorways.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Today I managed a really rather incredible 7.3 miles per kWh in the little Fiat 500e - and in total today I did three journeys with the trip computer displaying more than 7 miles per kWh.

I also charged it at an Instavolt charger for the first time. I didn’t need to recharge it but I was keen to get some more real life experience of using the public charging infrastructure.

There were four 50 kW chargers at a petrol station, all working, and all available. I had never used one before, didn’t have the app, and it took 20 seconds to plug in and start charging.

It was relatively pricey at 85p per kW and so we only left it connected for a short while, but even so it charged from 51% to 90% - I wish I had timed it now, but couldn’t have been more than 15 minutes.

Overall another positive experience.

In the interests of science I took the Fiat 500e on exactly the same route again today but this time on the return journey I drove it like I stole it.

Accelerating very hard and cruising at a speed very close to that of a Northerner in a CLS 55 AMG on an early hours run on deserted motorways.

Three up with the lights and AC on it did a very respectable 4 miles per kWh, which would equate to 85+ miles if leaving 10% charge in reserve.

The 7.3 miles per kWh yesterday (no AC or lights), was achieved by accelerating steadily and cruising at 50 mph would equate to 155+ miles.

It demonstrates the impact of speed on range quite nicely, it also deminstrates that the manufacturer’s quoted range can be exceeded too.

 

[markjay]

In the interests of science I took the Fiat 500e on exactly the same route again today but this time on the return journey I drove it like I stole it.

Accelerating very hard and cruising at a speed very close to that of a Northerner in a CLS 55 AMG on an early hours run on deserted motorways.

Three up with the lights and AC on it did a very respectable 4 miles per kWh, which would equate to 85+ miles if leaving 10% charge in reserve.

The 7.3 miles per kWh yesterday (no AC or lights), was achieved by accelerating steadily and cruising at 50 mph would equate to 155+ miles.

It demonstrates the impact of speed on range quite nicely, it also deminstrates that the manufacturer’s quoted range can be exceeded too.

Motor journalists who test EVs' range based on 'typical use' remind me of a joke that my Statistics lecturer told our class (many years ago now): Two statisticians go hunting. They see a bear. They both raise their rifles, and fire at the same time. One bullet passes 2 feet to the left of the bear, the other bullet passes 2 feet to the right of the bear. On seeing this, they both jumped with joy and shouted "it's a hit!".

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I’ve just been shopping, and if you use the EV chargers in the shopping centre car park then your parking is free of charge.

I left home fully charged and it took 4 kW to top it up back to 100% at the shopping centre, at a cost of £1.60 (40p per kW).

The parking should have cost me £3.50 so it’s effectively free to charge up to 9 kW in the shopping centre.

It’s now on charge at home, and it will cost 52p to recharge it back to 100% (4 kW) at 13p per kW. At 4 mil/kWh that’s the equivalent cost 200+ mpg.

 

[markjay]

ADAC Pannenstatistik 2024

Die Bilanz der Pannenhilfe zeigt, welche Pkw am häufigsten liegen bleiben. Und: Sind Elektroautos wirklich zuverlässig?

www.adac.de

English summary:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/667690/tesla-model-3-reliability-adac-index-2022/amp/

 

[Deleted member 55947]

Tesla have fitted emergency fuel provision for those with range anxiety

 

[Smiley]

It’s now on charge at home, and it will cost 52p to recharge it back to 100% (4 kW) at 13p per kW. At 4 mil/kWh that’s the equivalent cost 200+ mpg.

Indeed. Some have been taking advantage of 200+mpg equivalent in small electric cars for years; it gets even better when charged from solar panel output.

 

[pioneercollector]

My new van ( Nissan Townstar ) is now recording a range of 184 and is averaging 3.6Kw/M - This is getting better the longer the van is broken in and the weather stays above 14c !!
Obviously the van spends most journeys loaded up with paper records ( Up to 750kg ) which does not effect the performance really, but does use more power, Where i live is not exactly Holland, more like the Pyrenees !

I did watch a video on the web years ago where a Dutch chap had the same van as me ( Nissan eNV 200 ) and modified it somewhat, whilst mine at the time had a realistic range of around 80 miles, his was closer to 1000 miles! Yes he did lose the ability to carry a lot as the load area was full of batteries ......

 

[poormansporsche]

Make your knob car look like another knob car ......