The good old US of A

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We can use our world leading NHS, or go private, freedm of choice does not get much better than that.

Nope - I have to pay for the NHS even if I want to go private. Same for schools. What kind of choice is that?
 
Turns out those damm fool commies have been busy in the lab:

"The Heberprot-P, which was developed to curb diabetes-related amputations, would start advanced clinical trials in 100 hospitals throughout EU in 2013, said Ernesto Lopez Mola, business director of Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology (CGEB) in Havana."

"The drug contains an epidermal growth factor that steps up tissue recovery and is the only drug available today designed to treat diabetic foot ulcers and save the lower limbs, according to Mola."

"The Heberprot-P has been patented in 40 countries and CGEB officials expect the drug to generate revenues of over 100 million dollars in 2012."

"The CGEB's range of biotech drugs contributed to the diagnosis, prevention and treatment of nearly 30 diseases, including chronic hepatitis, respiratory papillomatosis, warts and conjunctivitis, said Dr. Verena Muzio, the center's director of clinical research."

"The greatest success of Cuba's biotech industry is widely considered to be the CimaVax-EGF vaccine, the only one of its kind in the world proven effective against advanced lung cancer."

"Cuban scientists are also working on a potential new vaccine, called Teravac-HIV-1, to fight AIDS."

Still must all be pretend, they're just silly brown people after all, and commies to boot, they *must* have got some clever white people in to show them how to do it all and run the show...
 
I was in Washington a while back and there were protesters there.

Nothing like the Vietnam era though. But then the Viet Cong didn't make the mistake of attacking New York and Washington using airliners.

Glad to hear that, was this once they started loosing there jobs and homes and did anyone notice that they invaded the wrong country.
 
...Turns out they're not the helpless idiots you thought they were....

No they are not. No people are idiots. Not the Cubans, not the North Koreans, no one... what they are is simply victims of a regime they did not choose.
 
It's called civilisation, it's what marks us out from savages/Americans.

Civilisation, yes, choice, no. That was my point. We are not as fearful as the Americans are for our personal freedoms. And I fully support our sensible and balanced approach here in the UK.

However, the Americans have their own views regarding what's good for them. And they happen to think that forcing someone to take medical insurance is excessive interference.

A valid point of view which I respect, even if I happen to disagree with it.
 
Glad to hear that, was this once they started loosing there jobs and homes

I didn't get the impression it was related to that.

and did anyone notice that they invaded the wrong country.

To notice anything like that would require a knowledge of foreign geography. Not their strong point.
 
However, the Americans have their own views regarding what's good for them. And they happen to think that forcing someone to think and act in the same way as them isn't excessive interference, it's called 'spreading democracy'.

Fixed that for you. :thumb:
 
They had a revolution that gave then their freedom.

Why do you suppose they were so keen to revolt?

I don't consider people that can't change their government as being free.

And knowing human nature... any people that don't change their government for 50 years are simply not free to do so - no nation on the planet would willingly chose to have the same government for that long.

As for revolution... those who are loudest and best armed shout that they are doing the will of everyone else. Whether everyone else actually want what the loud bunch stand for is questionable.

Just because they were not free before the revolution does not mean they are free now... the Islamic revolution did not make the people of Iran any more or less free than they were under the Shah.

Without democratic elections it is anyone's guess if the revolution leaders actually carry out the will of the people.
 
I don't consider people that can't change their government as being free.

And knowing human nature... any people that don't change their government for 50 years are simply not free to do so - no nation on the planet would willingly chose to have the same government for that long.

As for revolution... those who are loudest and best armed shout that they are doing the will of everyone else. Whether everyone else actually want what the loud bunch stand for is questionable.

Just because they were not free before the revolution does not mean they are free now... the Islamic revolution did not make the people of Iran any more or less free than they were under the Shah.

Without democratic elections it is anyone's guess if the revolution leaders actually carry out the will of the people.

So the Cuban's were better of with the Batista government. The difference between a communist dictatorship and a fascist-kleptomaniac government is that the general population gets some thing out of it (education, healthcare etc) as opposed to the butt of a rifle in the face if you dare protest.

P.S. I lived in both and the communists edge the lesser of two evils
 
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As for Cuban and Islamic medical inventions... in the interest of impartiality, please Google 'Israeli Medical Inventions' - it's actually a Wikipedia entry, and also lists all the Israeli Nobel Prize winners.

This will not change your opinion of Israel, I'm sure... but nor should it. The Cuban, Islamic, and Israeli medical inventions are all very important by themselves but they are a drop in the ocean compared to the vast amount of research carried out in western universities, and the vast amount of resources committed to it by commercial organisation.

If you have a moment, do try to research the number of new drugs invented in the past 20 years in Cuba, Islamic countries, and Israel, put together, compared to those invented in the UK, US, and EU - I think you will find a massive discrepancy in magnitude.

Many here are all too happy to prophesise the demise of the Capitalistic west, but do not come up with answers as to where will all those things our life depend on come from - and they want come from Cuba, China, or Iran.

What we need - in my view - is not to kill Capitalism - but moderate it and make it socially responsible. This is what we have always tried to do here in the UK - the common sense middle-of-the-road approach - keep its achievements but avoids its pitfalls. We have not always got it right, but I believe it is the way forward.
 
So the Cuban's were better of with the Batista government. The difference between a communist dictatorship and a fascist-kleptomaniac government is that the general population gets some thing out of it (education, healthcare etc) as opposed to the butt of a rifle in the face if you dare protest.

P.S. I lived in both and the communists edge the lesser of two evils

I think we are saying the same thing... Castro may have been a vast improvement over Batista, but to my mind the Cubans will only ever be really free when they can actually elect their own leaders.
 
Regarding Democracy... for once we actually agree.

I do think that Democracy is the only way for people to have a degree of freedom, and this is why unlike other forum members I am not impressed with all those great countries with only a tiny flaw that they are governed by people who took power by force (and Cuba, China, Iran, and North Korea all fall in this category).

And this is also why I have immense respect to any country that allows its citizens to choose their leaders.

But... and here is where I think we agree... spreading Democracy by the sward is an oxymoron.
 
Just because they were not free before the revolution does not mean they are free now... the Islamic revolution did not make the people of Iran any more or less free than they were under the Shah.

I wouldn't dismiss the election in Iran entirely, ahmadinejad has alot of support in the small towns and villages in Iran, however he isn't well liked in the major cities but the 'man on the street' admires the fact he isn't a western puppet like Mubarak or Gaddaffi IMO
 
I wouldn't dismiss the election in Iran entirely, ahmadinejad has alot of support in the small towns and villages in Iran, however he isn't well liked in the major cities but the 'man on the street' admires the fact he isn't a western puppet like Mubarak or Gaddaffi IMO

There is no need to go into the details of Iran's rigged elections, or what happened to those who dared to protest against it.

The point is that Ahmadinejad isn't Iran's ruler.... the ayatollahs are.

And the people of Iran can not vote the ayatollahs out of power.

You could of course argue that we don't elect our monarch - or the Archbishop of Canterbury, for that matter - but this is exactly why their powers over our government have been curtailed over the years.
 
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As for Cuban and Islamic medical inventions... in the interest of impartiality, please Google 'Israeli Medical Inventions' - it's actually a Wikipedia entry, and also lists all the Israeli Nobel Prize winners.

This will not change your opinion of Israel, I'm sure... but nor should it. The Cuban, Islamic, and Israeli medical inventions are all very important by themselves but they are a drop in the ocean compared to the vast amount of research carried out in western universities, and the vast amount of resources committed to it by commercial organisation.

If you have a moment, do try to research the number of new drugs invented in the past 20 years in Cuba, Islamic countries, and Israel, put together, compared to those invented in the UK, US, and EU - I think you will find a massive discrepancy in magnitude.

Many here are all too happy to prophesise the demise of the Capitalistic west, but do not come up with answers as to where will all those things our life depend on come from - and they want come from Cuba, China, or Iran.

What we need - in my view - is not to kill Capitalism - but moderate it and make it socially responsible. This is what we have always tried to do here in the UK - the common sense middle-of-the-road approach - keep its achievements but avoids its pitfalls. We have not always got it right, but I believe it is the way forward.
I think you have hit nail on head, I used to have a lot of respect for America some of this was being young and most of it was under the Clinton years but I have watched the world be consumed with the capitalist attitude and it's depressing. They are a patriotic bunch but treat each other like ****e, and this is what will kill them in the end. you cannot keep sending your youth to death or near death every 5-10 years you cannot allow your youth if poor end up in prison and you should not allow your youth to think guns is a way of life, and as I said before if a nations people can't be ****d to stop the billions spent on weapons and wars but come out on the streets and start shouting when there is a healthcare review then for me i have no time for them and I'm proud to be born an englishmen.
 

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