The Good the Bad and the Ugly.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by grober, Jul 29, 2008.

  1. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    What happens when a Euroncap 5 rated car FIAT 500 meets a 4 rated car an Audi Q7. Its not pretty. Commentary is in German unfortunately but the results don't require much interpreting anyway.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr1sErv7lSI
     
  2. st4

    st4 Banned

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    Well the Q7 costs more so it should be safer.

    Why does Q7 not get 5 star NCAP but Fiat 500 does. I knew even before watching that the Q7 would come off better.
     
  3. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    Just goes to show why 4x4 should be banned....
     
  4. Beetnik

    Beetnik Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    No substitute for plenty of mass to absorb the impact.

    Crumple zones are fine but if there's only a few inches to crumple you're not going to come out of it well.

    Smart cars also have a '4' rating but you wouldn't get me in one.
     
  5. st4

    st4 Banned

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    Thats a remarkably provocative comment, and I have to say I disagree entirely.

    People who can afford a Q7 or any other 4x4 and want a safe car that protects them well should be able to have one, its about choice. Its a free country, and thank god for it. If someone else can't; too bad. Don't drive if your scared of being hit by a 4x4.

    Anyway by that logic then buses should be banned. If a bus hits a small car what do you think would happen then. If a bus hits a pedestrian what would happen. But people moan on about 4x4's and not buses. It must therefore be indirectly aimed at the people who drive them then....

    There will always be bigger vehicles on the road than yours, and if its just another hazard of day to day driving.

    What would happen if my E class hit the Fiat 500. The outcome would be similar, so should my car be off the road too just because I can afford something safer and bigger than someone else.
     
  6. crockers

    crockers MB Club Veteran

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    I think it is because the star ratings are specific to the class of car -- they are not saying a 5 star car is better than a 4 star car ..they are saying a 5 star small car is better than a 4 star small car..

    The Q7 is a large 4X4 and therefore has to be judged against other large 4X4's -- I dont know what does have a 5 star in that class but they are saying the Q7 isnt as good as those 4X4s that have 5 stars..

    My C class has 5 stars - but I wouldn't want to be hit by the Q7 - its sheer mass would ride up and carry over the protection ... there is a lot to be said for legislation restricting the height of frontal inpacts...but I am sure other more qualified physicists will put me right on that
     
  7. st4

    st4 Banned

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    I thought the star rating was an absolute so a 4 star car wasn't as safe as a 5 star car. So is my 5 star E class safer to crash at 40mph into a wall than a 4 star Q7?
     
  8. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    Absolutely correct. The Q7 had a higher strength member which due to not having adequate cross tieing punched through the Fiat without sustaning any damage to itself, thus didn't absorb any impact force.

    The NCap awards are not given for one vehicle against another, but a single vehicle hitting a deformable wall. To score a higher score the vehicle must score more points, i.e. be less damaging to the occupants.

    I feel we should give due consideration to what are effectively large numbers of semi-commercial vehicles driving on our roads, for the safety of the masses, as opposed to the occupants of that vehicle.

    Ncap results for Q7 and 500

    http://www.euroncap.com/tests/audi_q7_2006/262.aspx

    http://www.euroncap.com/tests/Fiat_500_2007/298.aspx

    Interestingly the 500 is safer for an occupant when hiting a solid wall.
     
  9. crockers

    crockers MB Club Veteran

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    No idea ... let us know how you get on ....:D :D :D






    Joking:cool:
     
  10. st4

    st4 Banned

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    Thanks for that.

    The Q7 suffered from poor welding causing rupture in the foot well area? So my £50k is buying what exactly. It ain't buy looks thats for sure ;). A 4 star result in a car that will be bought for its perceived safety just isn't good enough, even though it will mince a smaller car.

    However NCAP tests like this are IMO geared against the larger cars. A collision at 70mph into a wall would separate the men from the boys so to speak.

    So NCAP star ratings are absolute, and the class of car doesn't come into it, so 5 stars is safer than 4 stars. (Guess I am alright then :D:rock:)
     
  11. crockers

    crockers MB Club Veteran

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  12. st4

    st4 Banned

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    Great so by that logic should buses be banned too? I know what I'd rather be hit by, SUV or a bus? Of all the vehicles on the road, SUVS still count as one of the smaller ones.
     
  13. ms500

    ms500 Banned

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    You are Vladimir Lenin, and I claim my £5 :D
     
  14. nick mercedes

    nick mercedes MB Club Veteran

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    Waste of cars, innit.

    Anyone could have predicted the result...
     
  15. marcos

    marcos Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    You do love a bit of winding up DM:rolleyes:

    Personally I think drivers of those silly Prius cars should be banned from driving as they are way too gullible;)

    And whilst we are on the subject does anyone have a video of a Q7 or similair in a crash test with a G-Wiz;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2008
  16. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    ;) :D
     
  17. st4

    st4 Banned

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    The guys entitled to that opinion, even though it was worded rather strongly. When one see's footage like that hysterical repsonses are par for the course, and I can't expect any reasonable justification to a statement like that. Purely on that basis then we should be banning all buses. Actually come to think of it....

    They are a bit, and these are dangerous to padestrians as you simply don't here them coming. Alas once oil runs out they'll be the future (unless we make synthetic fuel, and a motor that generates peak torque from 0rpm will be accelerative.

    The GWiz is a ghastly car, and manufacturers need to make electric cars enticing to lure us out of IC engines. A Q7 couldn't do enough damage to a Gwiz to satisfy me.
     
  18. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    It doesn't work like that for a few reasons. Busses are full commercial vehicles and are regulated as such, including a higher level driving test and ongoing training, they travel a lot slower and there are a lot less of them on the roads.
    Also due to their shape they have large flat areas with solid flat sections behind them, which would help another vehicle in a crash situation.
     
  19. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    A G-Wiz isn't technically a car, it's a quadricycle and isn't subjected to any crash testing.
    It doesn't do much for the image of alternative fuelled transport.
     
  20. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    An image.
    All high value cars carry a much greater profit margin than lower value ones. In reality one is paying for image, a bit of additional luxury and a lot of additional air.

    The reason why the floor ruptures is the same reason the Q7 punched through the 500. The longitudinal member doesn't collapse properly and acts as a battering ram. If it can't batter by going forwards it has to go backwards.
    The Fiat is actually a better design as it does collapse properly and also has a frontal cage to spread the forces to both sides of the car, thus reducing rearward intrusion.
     
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