The nightmare of charging in the UK

[m80]

I was referring to hiring an ICE van

I thought we were talking of ICE becoming history, so not an option.
The assumption that EV can be used daily with a hire option on the occasional day doesn't work to my mind as the purchase of an EV van is beyond the pocket of the majority. By the time it 'may' be the ICE will be priced off the road through increasing penalties or just banned.

My thoughts around the small trader was a bit more around Mrs Smith ringing for a small job to be done and finding the call out charge has been massively increased, along with the hourly rate, because of the lease costs of the EV van.
Little trader isn't going to want to buy a 5 year old van knowing the battery pack is likely only good for a few miles. And tbh I see that as manufacturers figures are more often v optimistic anyway and that's with an mt van not having to navigate traffic and hills the true usage will be overly restrictive for even those who work local(ish).

Imagine an EV Viano taxi trying to get 40k miles p.a. working in London, and they are already hard pushed to make good money (I believe) w/o the increased depreciation and per mile cost due to the usage limitations.

All this must result in a much greater cost of most things to the end user.

 

[Bellow]

On the subject of EV vans I think little delivery vans might be OK in EV but your average tradesman might have a different view . The guys I know in the trades would not appreciate having to sit for even 30 minutes to charge up 'time is money' but for the guys I know who do local parcel drops for Hermes etc an EV van would be spot on . But looking at the heaps of junk that they drive I don't think they could afford one.

It will be like EV cars , they will be fine for some but a non starter for others.

A lot - if not all - of the courier market is franchises where the driver funds everything up front. Including the buying or leasing of the van.

 

[Bellow]

All ICE's are heading in the same direction of unviability due to emissions driven increased complexity. The next EU7 regulations due out around 2025 are looking like they will be so strict and unrealistic that small engine IC vehicles will not be able to comply. If larger vehicles are able to comply they will be more expensive, hideously complex and no doubt less reliable. The EU7 regs sound like a deliberate attempt to sign the death warrant of ICE well before the 2030 deadline.

You have to wonder if the people coming up with these emissions targets have any connection to the real world and the impact of their decisions on the EU economy. I foresee more of the worlds manufacturers abandoning the ICE EU market altogether.

Analysis: New rules could make ICE engines unviable by 2026 | Autocar

Reading the article, the target is strict control of emissions for the first 150,000 miles but the break point for electric is 50,000 one third of proposed ICE monitoring.
We are used to 'well-to-wheel' calculation for energy sources. It is time we applied the same to drivetrains. The diesel's manufacturing carbon footprint would be interesting to see. It isn't zero that's for sure. There's far too much weight, precision machining, and exotic metals in it for that to be possible. If all of this carbon footprint was being met by renewables it would be fine - but it isn't.

A small simple fuel efficient engine with very very low manufacturing carbon footprint and being lighter and smaller has the potential to reduce the energy required to propel any vehicle it's installed in and has a head start over EVs and ICE from day one. OEMs became so entrenched in their thinking (forced there in large part by legislators and fear of legislation) that they bet the farm on diesel and have (predictably) lost. Now they are forced to change, they know nothing more than what they are instructed to do - electrify.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

I thought we were talking of ICE becoming history, so not an option.
The assumption that EV can be used daily with a hire option on the occasional day doesn't work to my mind as the purchase of an EV van is beyond the pocket of the majority. By the time it 'may' be the ICE will be priced off the road through increasing penalties or just banned.

My thoughts around the small trader was a bit more around Mrs Smith ringing for a small job to be done and finding the call out charge has been massively increased, along with the hourly rate, because of the lease costs of the EV van.
Little trader isn't going to want to buy a 5 year old van knowing the battery pack is likely only good for a few miles. And tbh I see that as manufacturers figures are more often v optimistic anyway and that's with an mt van not having to navigate traffic and hills the true usage will be overly restrictive for even those who work local(ish).

Imagine an EV Viano taxi trying to get 40k miles p.a. working in London, and they are already hard pushed to make good money (I believe) w/o the increased depreciation and per mile cost due to the usage limitations.

All this must result in a much greater cost of most things to the end user.

The big question is when?

The answer might give EV a lot of time to become the realistic alternative, look at how fast the technology is moving currently.

 

[m80]

The big question is when?

The answer might give EV a lot of time to become the realistic alternative, look at how fast the technology is moving currently.

I agree the tech is coming along, needs must and necessity being the mother and all that. I appreciate the Gov't's strategy of "tell 'em they've got too".

How long before larger vehicles can realistically be used as a daily workhorse is the biggy.
How much this strategy of EV being the future goes toward actually saving out planet is another.
Will the negative social impact be justified by the end result?

There are financial incentives here that corrupt the truth. Every penny we spend has a tax content, our Gov't's need that.
We are persuaded / manipulated by emotional arguments. "your disgusting diesel is destroying the lives of an unquantifiable number of innocent young darlings that are our future (ignoring the massive number that are a future problem of course). The element of truth is exaggerated to push an agenda. How the hell did I and others ever reach our age with all those diesel busses, trains, wagons.....?

I don't doubt improvements were needed and enjoy the advantage of a cleaner air, but is the green push just too much and has become a fashionable shout?

Does anyone know what China and India are doing to improve the air that circulates our planet?
Will we penalise such a Iceland the next time one of their volcanoes spews out it's harmful emissions?
While I'm sure we can be guaranteed that the well heeled will not benefit from this at the expense of the less financially able, we can be equally sure that that is bs.

I'm v unsure about the proportionality here.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

I agree the tech is coming along, needs must and necessity being the mother and all that. I appreciate the Gov't's strategy of "tell 'em they've got too".

How long before larger vehicles can realistically be used as a daily workhorse is the biggy.
How much this strategy of EV being the future goes toward actually saving out planet is another.
Will the negative social impact be justified by the end result?

There are financial incentives here that corrupt the truth. Every penny we spend has a tax content, our Gov't's need that.
We are persuaded / manipulated by emotional arguments. "your disgusting diesel is destroying the lives of an unquantifiable number of innocent young darlings that are our future (ignoring the massive number that are a future problem of course). The element of truth is exaggerated to push an agenda. How the hell did I and others ever reach our age with all those diesel busses, trains, wagons.....?

I don't doubt improvements were needed and enjoy the advantage of a cleaner air, but is the green push just too much and has become a fashionable shout?

Does anyone know what China and India are doing to improve the air that circulates our planet?
Will we penalise such a Iceland the next time one of their volcanoes spews out it's harmful emissions?
While I'm sure we can be guaranteed that the well heeled will not benefit from this at the expense of the less financially able, we can be equally sure that that is bs.

I'm v unsure about the proportionality here.

Oh well...

 

[m80]

Oh well...

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Exactly , that's why they (the blokes I know) all drive total heaps of $hit on their rounds . They get paid so little that buying anything new is just not going to happen.

A lot - if not all - of the courier market is franchises where the driver funds everything up front. Including the buying or leasing of the v

 

[Larkone]

The answer to the problem of chargers



Fit them with diesel generators

 

[SpikyMikey]

The answer to the problem of chargers

View attachment 113901

Fit them with diesel generators

I had to stop thinking about this ^ it made my head hurt

 

[Deleted member 126969]

Australia (Nullarbor visible on the charger). Given how far that charger is from any kind of electricity grid, not a bad idea really, although solar panels and a battery might make a bit more sense.

Using diesel to charge EVs in the outback is greener than you think

A group of EV drivers test out using an EV charger powered by a diesel generator as a solution for outback roadhouses, and the results are promising.

thedriven.io

 

[Petrol Pete]

A lot - if not all - of the courier market is franchises where the driver funds everything up front. Including the buying or leasing of the van.

Not with the couriers I know , all 4 of them are driving heaps of junk (the best one being a 2004 Ford C max) all I know is that they appear to doing bit's for Hermes and have local 'postcode' areas allocated to them , so maybe they are just picking up the dregs of the business . But they are busy.

I did know one guy who went down the full franchise deal and he chose bankruptcy over carrying on with it . Mostly down to him not knowing what he was really signing up for. but I agree with you at least 70% of the deliveries down my lane are liveried vans obviously franchise or employee.

 

[Tonygw]

Last week an Amazon Ev Merc van broke down blocking a car park near me, it ran out of charge, was there for quite some hours. They tried to refill it with a red petrol can with 5 liters of electricity but it was having none of it.

So they had to run a cable to the nearest socket and wait...and wait.. and wait.. and then wait a bit longer..

Its the future.. LOL

 

[m80]

Last week an Amazon Ev Merc van broke down blocking a car park near me,

Total lack of fore sight there.
always go flat at the top of a hill, so it can recharge going down it.

And anyway everybody knows you refuel an EV with green energy. Wrong colour can I'm afraid.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

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[Dickster]

The answer to the problem of chargers

View attachment 113901

Fit them with diesel generators

 

[jimbg]

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I cannot waste another half hour watching this idiot again, what was his conclusion this time?

 

[grober]

Last week an Amazon Ev Merc van broke down blocking a car park near me, it ran out of charge, was there for quite some hours. They tried to refill it with a red petrol can with 5 liters of electricity but it was having none of it.

So they had to run a cable to the nearest socket and wait...and wait.. and wait.. and then wait a bit longer..

Its the future.. LOL

You have to feel sorry for the van driver and all the people trapped in the car park--- if only the EV van MANUFACTURER had the foresight to fit some sort of display to warn the driver he was running out of battery power and shouldn't attempt to proceed any further without running the risk of sudden imobilisation ??

 

[KillerHERTZ]

I cannot waste another half hour watching this idiot again, what was his conclusion this time?

Why is he an idiot?

 

[jimbg]

Because he is not giving a true picture of EV costs and is playing up to the anti - EV brigade in the first video, no idea what the second one is about as I have not spent 30 mins watching it