The UK Politics & Brexit Thread - Please no Covid talk!

markjay

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As John le Carre might have said-" its not the spies you know about that's the worry- it's the ones you don't" The mistake today would be to characterise present-day espionage tactics in those 20th century terms. It's now an entirely new game illustrated by the fact that two leading Western democracies have been persuaded to elect 2 of the most divisive inept and self-serving heads of government that we have seen in a long time, possibly aided in no small way by the covert internet influence of foreign powers.

If you are comparing Boris Johnson to Donald Trump, then the difference is that Johnson is a seasoned politician who has many years of experience as MP, Mayor of London, and a senior minister under May, while Trump is a crafty businessman who arrogantly tried to wing it through the 4 years of his presidency without never really understanding how the country or the US administration actually work.

That said, this does not exonerate Johnson, just to say that I don't think that the two are comparable.
 

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And they keep coming. Another two parties are alleged to have taken place in No10 on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral. The media will be full of the contrast between the solitary image of the Queen in mourning and No10 breaking the rules with leaving do parties. Boris wasn't there but it's still indicative of the culture he created in No10 which is very damaging. I now think it's impossible Boris can survive as the public will not tolerate this insult to a Monarch who like them, followed the rules.
 

Harrythedog

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And they keep coming. Another two parties are alleged to have taken place in No10 on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral. The media will be full of the contrast between the solitary image of the Queen in mourning and No10 breaking the rules with leaving do parties. Boris wasn't there but it's still indicative of the culture he created in No10 which is very damaging. I now think it's impossible Boris can survive as the public will not tolerate this insult to a Monarch who like them, followed the rules.
I think he'll be allowed to bluff his way through it but he will certainly be replaced at least a year before the next General Election. There's no way the Tories can win an election with him at the helm
 

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but it's still indicative of the culture he created in No10 which is very damaging
There is very obviously a sense of entitlement amongst very many who are involved in running the country - and that's clearly a trait not limited to politicians, and that pre-exists the current PM.

However, I think the rage against people "breaking the rules" is misdirected: the rage should be directed against the idiotic, illogical, and clearly unnecessary laws that resulted in inhumane situations and huge societal and economic damage, and in particular those who formulated and unconditionally supported them.

I noted at the time that not one "journalist" at the briefings ever challenged the government over these restrictions. Never once did they ask the government to justify them with evidence of their effectiveness, utility, or overall benefit. All they were ever asked was why restrictions weren't even more rigid, started sooner, or continued longer. Yet (as it's emerging) many of those "journalists" were also happy to "break the rules" when it suited them. More evidence of sense entitlement.

I note that many of those in the media and the Labour party who were unquestioning supporters of the draconian laws (and indeed, cheerleaders for more of them) are now busily attempting to distance themselves from that support as the evidence piles up that they did more harm than good.

The stench of hypocrisy isn't limited to 10 Downing Street.
 

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There is very obviously a sense of entitlement amongst very many who are involved in running the country - and that's clearly a trait not limited to politicians, and that pre-exists the current PM.

However, I think the rage against people "breaking the rules" is misdirected: the rage should be directed against the idiotic, illogical, and clearly unnecessary laws that resulted in inhumane situations and huge societal and economic damage, and in particular those who formulated and unconditionally supported them.

I noted at the time that not one "journalist" at the briefings ever challenged the government over these restrictions. Never once did they ask the government to justify them with evidence of their effectiveness, utility, or overall benefit. All they were ever asked was why restrictions weren't even more rigid, started sooner, or continued longer. Yet (as it's emerging) many of those "journalists" were also happy to "break the rules" when it suited them. More evidence of sense entitlement.

I note that many of those in the media and the Labour party who were unquestioning supporters of the draconian laws (and indeed, cheerleaders for more of them) are now busily attempting to distance themselves from that support as the evidence piles up that they did more harm than good.

The stench of hypocrisy isn't limited to 10 Downing Street.
I recently visited Oxford and had a tour of a couple of the Colleges. Of course not every politician goes through Oxford or Cambridge, but many do. Im not anti public school or anything like that but it did strike me that the culture at the Colleges i visited is so removed from "normal" life i could easily see it could be a breeding ground for developing a sense of entitlement. I had very mixed feelings about it, and still do. On one hand these establishments do incredible work and i am sure the education they provide is amongst the best available. But to me there also seems a slightly darker side. Perhaps this is part of the problem at Westrminster (and beyond).
 

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In fairness to the Govt I think...
The purpose of my post was to illustrate the extent of hypocrisy and how it is not limited to either Boris or the current operation at No 10, not to reopen the forbidden topic of Covid discussion.

I don't want to antagonise the Mod's nor see this thread closed, so suggest that further discussion avoids the "C" topic 👍
 

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At the moment the problem is the breaking of the rules that were in place due to 'C'
 

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I recently visited Oxford and had a tour of a couple of the Colleges. Of course not every politician goes through Oxford or Cambridge, but many do. Im not anti public school or anything like that but it did strike me that the culture at the Colleges i visited is so removed from "normal" life i could easily see it could be a breeding ground for developing a sense of entitlement. I had very mixed feelings about it, and still do. On one hand these establishments do incredible work and i am sure the education they provide is amongst the best available. But to me there also seems a slightly darker side. Perhaps this is part of the problem at Westrminster (and beyond).
Just read this in The Independent, so not sure if true. I’m not an anti-Borisite per se but this is the kind of thing I was talking about above - the darker side of these institutions:

“...Johnson, a one-time member of an Oxford University dining club that liked to smash up restaurants and then pay for the damages the following day...”

Now of course the restaurants in question may well be willing participants. Regardless though, promoting/normalising this kind of behaviour can’t be healthy, and is certainly out of step with the rest of society.
 

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I'm surprised I've not seen more said on the new and social media about the story that Keir Starmer had also been out drinking with "work colleagues" during the height of the lockdown!
 

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Just read this in The Independent, so not sure if true. I’m not an anti-Borisite per se but this is the kind of thing I was talking about above - the darker side of these institutions:

“...Johnson, a one-time member of an Oxford University dining club that liked to smash up restaurants and then pay for the damages the following day...”

Now of course the restaurants in question may well be willing participants. Regardless though, promoting/normalising this kind of behaviour can’t be healthy, and is certainly out of step with the rest of society.

Not directly related, but this is a motoring forum... so just to add that this is one reason why I can't watch the classic Top Gear of old. Seeing Clarkson, Hammond, and May smash-up and vandalise cars for fun and entertainment, is, to my mind, barbaric, wasteful, and cringeworthy, even if the cars are fully paid-for (with TV licence fee payers' money, BTW). Just cebause you have the money, and it's fun for you and your audience, doesnt mean you should do it. My view, others may differ, of course...
 

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I'm surprised I've not seen more said on the new and social media about the story that Keir Starmer had also been out drinking with "work colleagues" during the height of the lockdown!
There are at least two reasons:
  1. Starmer was not the architect of the restrictions (although he publicly & politically supported them), so his breaking them is seen as a lesser "crime"
  2. There is a distinct degree of bias amongst the noisiest social media contributors and, arguably, amongst the news media in general
 

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Just because you have the money, and it's fun for you and your audience, doesn't mean you should do it. My view, others may differ, of course...

I can remember when they completely destroyed a a football or rugby pitch. You have to suppose the pitch was due for being re-turfed - at least I hope so.

On balance though I very much enjoy watching the old Top Gear as it demonstrates that while the new guys have had their moments it's still not even close to being in the same league. Clarkson, Hammond, and May's dead pan humour was just effortless and no wonder given how long they worked together. The test for me is would I watch an re-run of the old Top Gear - yes every time. Of the new Top Gear - no.
 

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I'm surprised I've not seen more said on the new and social media about the story that Keir Starmer had also been out drinking with "work colleagues" during the height of the lockdown!
Maybe the fact that Starmer had a bottle of beer in his hand makes the story unbelievable
 

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More damning evidence of the culture in No10 during lock down.

No 10 staff held 'wine-time Fridays every week' throughout the pandemic. Such events were scheduled in the weekly calendar of 50 Downing Street aides between 4 p.m and 7 p.m throughout the Covid crisis, with Boris Johnson himself witnessing the gatherings where he encouraged staff to 'let off steam.' Staff took turns to fill a wheelie suitcase with wine at the local Tesco.

I enjoyed Friday drinks at work for many years and I'm sure other will have done but they wouldn't have taken place during lockdown.

Downing Street's wine-time Fridays | The Spectator
 

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Personally an amongst my own circle of friends the real and growing anger is the constant and seemingly increasing number of the privileged classes who break the law or rules, and escape any kind of punishment or redress.
Clowns in charge of government office, who are oblivious both to rules and work ethic, and obviously have absolutely no conscience whatsoever towards their public. Pure ignorance from folks who IMO know no better.
 

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Clarkson, Hammond, and May's dead pan humour was just effortless and no wonder given how long they worked together.
People tend to forget that both Clarkson and May were (and remain) accomplished journalists. While Hammond has a different background, the mixture of their ability to tell a sometimes complex story in an engaging way plus the obvious on-screen chemistry between them mark them out as being in a different league to the current TG team.
 

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I'm surprised I've not seen more said on the new and social media about the story that Keir Starmer had also been out drinking with "work colleagues" during the height of the lockdown!

Or a Chinese spy giving a Labour MP and ex-Shadow Cabinet Minister £600K, some of which went to the Labour Party. Now, if that had been Conservative MP .....

It's almost as though there's a putsch to overthrow a sitting Prime Minister.
 

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I’m clearly in the minority here but I couldn’t care less about him walking into the garden for 25 mins, at the end of the day they were all working together anyway in office within close proximity..

Boris was put in a very difficult situation with Brexit to sort out and then Covid…. We have one of the best vaccination programs in Europe.. why aren’t we thinking about the positives?

It’s all being blown massively out of proportion as per usual.
 

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