The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[Dryce]

Interesting article on Keir Starmers "summer tour" where he engaged with ex-Labour voters in Blackpool. Several of the ex-Labour voters said they had not heard of him before the event. Other issues with the Labour party brand were Tony Blair, the Iraq War and Gordon Brown calling a Labour voter a bigot.

Over the last 10 years we've seen the stature and visiblity of the Leader of the Opposition slip. A combination of the change in the type and background of people in politics and the change in the way th media works and how media is consumed seem to have setup a situation where even without the pandemic acting to increase the government's visibility and presence Mr Starmer is left fighting an uphill battle. Ironically Mr Corbyn had more visibility (but not necessarily in the right way).

I think we need to be concerned.

The likes of the BBC and the Guardian and the Independent don't really get the chasm that is potentially opening up for Labour in some of its old heartlands. So the 'Red Wall' was broken - the attitude in the media and those who don't like 'the Tories' or are reviled Mr Johnson simply think it will spring back and that it was a temporary aberration. That's a great story if you don't want to scratch the surface of Britain and see what's going on under the skin. At the same time the less left wing media isn't exactly going to advertise how they think Labour or Libdems or other party group can do better - and will just talk them down and dismiss them.

At the same time I think the public is more detached than ever from the institutions that govern in the UK.

There is a risk that the UK, Scotland, Wales, and NI all end up with incumbent ruling parties that simply can't be dislodged because there is no coherent or visible opposition. It also means that these incumbents don't have to do very much that is tangible - just make sure they are seen and heard even if there is not much to see or hear - while their opponents remain perpetually in the shadows.

Bit like those Building Society or Union or Company shareholder voting forms where you are asked to vote for somebody or something and have no real idea as to what to do and either just tick it for the status quo or recommendation and send it back .... or don't send it back.

 

[st13phil]

The likes of the BBC and the Guardian and the Independent don't really get the chasm that is potentially opening up for Labour in some of its old heartlands.

This is where the lack of (real) diversity in those organisations hits hard: when everyone present is of a similar background they tend to have similar values and opinions leading to groupthink. And instead of dealing with that lack of real diversity, they follow further groupthink that has decided the solution to be in promoting the cause of various vocal minorities - which is laudable as and of itself, but isn't going to address the root problem. In fact, my gut feel is that it's likely to exacerbate it.

There is a risk that the UK, Scotland, Wales, and NI all end up with incumbent ruling parties that simply can't be dislodged because there is no coherent or visible opposition. It also means that these incumbents don't have to do very much that is tangible - just make sure they are seen and heard even if there is not much to see or hear - while their opponents remain perpetually in the shadows.

Worryingly, I suspect we're already very close to that end point. More worryingly, and in part due to the influence of those media organisations you noted - and many more besides - I don't see things improving in the near to medium term.

I think we need to be concerned.

I agree 100%.

 

[m80]

There is a risk that the UK, Scotland, Wales, and NI all end up with incumbent ruling parties that simply can't be dislodged because there is no coherent or visible opposition.

Not so sure of that in N.I.
I view that Tory strategy is to undermine and discredit opposition parties, while I recognise that others do the same the Tory 'war' machine seems to be more successful at it.
The obvious strategy is to deny Labour councils the tools to improve, and to hi lite their failings along the way. The greater rewards to Tory councils make those areas more attractive by comparison, so pulls more voter sympathy.

I feel Wales is possibly going to suffer post (shush you know what) as they have deprived theirs of much needed tourism cash, and possibly attempt to recover such losses from those with remote investments there.
Scotland are possibly doing the Tory work for 'em, and may well be recognised increasingly as time passes.

So there's room for a new political party to introduce itself, but only if the Tories let 'em.

I feel we are close to authoritarian rule already. There is increasing desire for members of our population to police each other in the name of the perceived greater good.
Work the minds and buy the souls, and v recently that has been rather successful.

 

[GeeJayW]

Some suitable footwear for Sir Kier perhaps…

 

[LTD]

Some suitable footwear for Sir Kier perhaps…

View attachment 115772

I’d add a recreational flesh light picture for him too but reckon that would be verboten

 

[Bellow]

Some suitable footwear for Sir Kier perhaps…

View attachment 115772

Send them to Johnson. Something for him to wear around Chequers for the next ten days.

 

[GeeJayW]

So it seems hell hath no fury like a former advisor sacked…

Dominic Cummings: I discussed ousting PM after 2019 election landslide

Boris Johnson's former aide says Downing Street rifts developed within days of a landslide victory.

www.bbc.co.uk

What piece of work this guy is. Maybe he’s telling the truth, maybe not. Wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw a grand piano.

 

[SW18]

So it seems hell hath no fury like a former advisor sacked…

Dominic Cummings: I discussed ousting PM after 2019 election landslide

Boris Johnson's former aide says Downing Street rifts developed within days of a landslide victory.

www.bbc.co.uk

What piece of work this guy is. Maybe he’s telling the truth, maybe not. Wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw a grand piano.

What’s in it for him though? Seems a bit of a weirdo to me and it’s hard to imagine what he thinks this will achieve for himself.

 

[C240Sport97]

So it seems hell hath no fury like a former advisor sacked…

Dominic Cummings: I discussed ousting PM after 2019 election landslide

Boris Johnson's former aide says Downing Street rifts developed within days of a landslide victory.

www.bbc.co.uk

What piece of work this guy is. Maybe he’s telling the truth, maybe not. Wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw a grand piano.

The guy is totally delusional as to the power he thought he had .. and so full of self importance as he thinks he knows what is best for the country, an unelected mouthy SPAD.

Media is only giving him airtime because he is slagging off Johnson. The vast majority of public couldn't care less what he thinks or says. Yesterday's man, if he was even that.

 

[SW18]

The guy is totally delusional as to the power he thought he had .. and so full of self importance as he thinks he knows what is best for the country, an unelected mouthy SPAD.

Media is only giving him airtime because he is slagging off Johnson. The vast majority of public couldn't care less what he thinks or says. Yesterday's man, if he was even that.

... neatly answers my question!

 

[PhantomF4]

They Say it’s a fine line between genius and madness and it looks increasingly like Mr Cummings has crossed over.

Every new statement from Cummings only goes to prove how right Boris was to fire him…

 

[BPD07]

I guess he doesn’t have the strength of character to be elected, or the patience to work his way up in the Civil Service. Like many Chief of Staff / Advisors they think they are the defacto deputy / 2ic when in reality they are an intelligent trusted and glorified bag carrier. The whole episode stinks of sour grapes.

 

[Steveml63]

I just hope that someday Cummings steps over the line and reveals something covered by OSA - and gets done for it!
i simply cannot stand this arrogant, jumped up weasel of a man!

 

[flowrider]

As in a lot of these types of revelations there will be an element of truth in there somewhere. I can easily believe what he says about Carrie Johnson and I wouldn't be surprised if some of what he says about Boris doesn't also have a large element of truth to it. The trick is decided whats fact and whats only part fact.

 

[markjay]

Even if true, stories of people disagreeing, arguing, getting upset, changing their minds, being concerned or worried, etc, are essentially gossip, the sort of of thing the scullery maids will talk about downstairs. Naturally, this stuff makes for some great tabloid headlines.

 

[grober]

Let's put it this way. Dominic Cummings recent revelations about Boris Johnson's character and abilities in no way clashes with my previous conceptions of our current Prime Minister as a British version of Donald Trump.
Both incompetent and an inveterate liar. For a man who's supposedly recently guided the nation through a pandemic he appears remarkably fresh -- quite possibly because he doesn't give a sh*t!

 

[ChipChop]

The actor Cummings playing his role to undermine public confidence in the current administration. The aim? To divert attention away from the fact that every conspiracy theory has come true so far but give the impression that the electorate still have some say in matters. When they do not. Global response. Lockstep.

I suppose that is just coincidence theory though.

 

[GeeJayW]

Let's put it this way. Dominic Cummings recent revelations about Boris Johnson's character and abilities in no way clashes with my previous conceptions of our current Prime Minister as a British version of Donald Trump.
Both incompetent and an inveterate liar. For a man who's supposedly recently guided the nation through a pandemic he appears remarkably fresh -- quite possibly because he doesn't give a sh*t!

We only see Boris and other politicians through the lens that is the media, the very people that were slagging off Cummings 18-months ago. The same people that want us hanging on his every word.

I take most of what I see from Kuensberg et al with a large pinch of salt.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

The actor Cummings playing his role to undermine public confidence in the current administration. The aim? To divert attention away from the fact that every conspiracy theory has come true so far but give the impression that the electorate still have some say in matters. When they do not. Global response. Lockstep.

I suppose that is just coincidence theory though.

Have they?

 

[grober]

Dominic Cummings - bit of a rat-----who hired him in the first place? --- play with rats expect to get bitten.