The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[Deleted member 159894]

It's a shame we can't discuss it as I think we are currently in the midst of a most interesting period where for once the modelers advice was not blindly followed. Quite right too in my opinion. The exception of the devolved states is predictable and won't surprise anyone. If their restrictions are economically damaging they will simply hold out their hand for more of someone else's money.

If it does prove to be a storm about nothing Boris will come out of this very well compared to the devolved nations who are still throwing their weight about in limiting peoples freedom. The political developments in England mean the situation has has moved on considerably from the draconian measures first seen in early 2020 where even if mostly doing what they were asked to do, there were some examples of the Police being ridiculously heavy handed out of all proportion to the risk. It wouldn't be tolerated now.

In hindsight that was a very sad episode that I wouldn't wish to see repeated.

No bites?

Diddums

 

[markjay]

No bites?

Diddums

Sorry, bit tired, been queueing outside John Lewis all night

 

[Deleted member 159894]

Sorry, bit tired, been queueing outside John Lewis all night

Not you ya plumb

 

[st13phil]

"National self-loathing has become a rhetorical default-setting for much of the liberal centre-left, which exposes all those who oppose the government to claims of incurable pessimism"

Banana republic Britain and the curse of reverse exceptionalism

A day did not go by on social media in 2021 without some high-profile performative outrage about Boris Johnson and the hell hole he has bequeathed us. Britain is a ‘banana republic’ apparently. We live in a ‘tinpot dictatorship’ and are an ‘international embarrassment’. This sort of thing is...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[m80]

Sir Keir Starmer vows to restore trust if he wins power

The Labour leader seeks to build on his party's poll lead in a new year speech setting out his vision.

www.bbc.co.uk

"Restore trust in government" the super human that can do that would deserve my vote.
The issue is we need to demonstrate our trust before they can demonstrate they're worthy.

I've heard the term "contract with the British people" before haven't I? Beside the fact their manifesto should mean a sincere attempt at complying with the promise of such.
Was it Blair or Cameron that used the term?
Not so sure Starmer using it will persuade many.

 

[Swotty]

I saw KS referred to as "Kneel Starmer" in one of the papers today.

Brilliant!

 

[st13phil]

As we're all currently being treated to the "NHS is close to collapse" mantra, it's worth remembering that this is a perpetual problem that gets used as a political football each and every year. For example, here's a piece from 2021:

NHS faces another winter of crisis

BRITAIN'S hospitals are facing a winter crisis similar to that of two years ago when the NHS came close to collapse, senior doctors have warned.

www.theguardian.com

How strange then, that 20 years on the arrival of winter still seems to come as a surprise?

I wonder when the penny will drop that, just perhaps, the NHS needs root and branch reform?

 

[markjay]

I wonder when the penny will drop that, just perhaps, the NHS needs root and branch reform?

That's political suicide... for any party that even contemplates it.

 

[st13phil]

That's political suicide... for any party that even contemplates it.

So the ongoing failure, at huge cost, should go on until... what, exactly?

The issue is that politicians continually conflate the dysfunctional organisation with the people administering care to patients. The two are different and must be seen as so.

 

[m80]

So the ongoing failure, at huge cost, should go on until... what, exactly?

The issue is that politicians continually conflate the dysfunctional organisation with the people administering care to patients. The two are different and must be seen as so.

A forecast, as the NHS is clearly a massive financial drain, and yet continues to continually fail to provide is so many areas of what have become unrealistic expectations of the population.

What remains of the NHS establishments we now know will essentially be triage centres. Somewhat more than A&E but designed to categorise and more and more often pass on those for treatment to private institutions.
Those private institutions will seemingly compete, but can satisfy shareholders with their revenues from what is a massive national pot.
The Gov't of the day/s can demonstrate health care improvements and even reduced costs.
The Plebs can be ask to pay a nominal contribution here and there, increasing along the way until...

Politicians can continue to use statistics to disguise facts.
We may actually receive better health care, during the early transitions at least.

 

[Harrythedog]

As we're all currently being treated to the "NHS is close to collapse" mantra, it's worth remembering that this is a perpetual problem that gets used as a political football each and every year. For example, here's a piece from 2021:

NHS faces another winter of crisis

BRITAIN'S hospitals are facing a winter crisis similar to that of two years ago when the NHS came close to collapse, senior doctors have warned.

www.theguardian.com

How strange then, that 20 years on the arrival of winter still seems to come as a surprise?

I wonder when the penny will drop that, just perhaps, the NHS needs root and branch reform?

Like this

 

[Benzowner]

With the NHS, we have to bear in mind when the NHS was started in 1947 the average life span was around 66 it is now over 81. That is an awful lot of pensioners and retired with knee, hip and other joints that need replacing. Technology also plays a great deal in extending our life expectancy with many many preventative checks that could have only been dreamed of in 1947, the cost of running the NHS has increased from around 3-3.5% of GDP to now a whopping 7.26%. I do however wonder what inefficiencies there are at the top and how many empire builders are employed?

 

[Tonye]

the cost of running the NHS has increased

A 10p NI rise would sort that but it would be frittered away on other things like MPs pay.

 

[Petrol Pete]

With the NHS, we have to bear in mind when the NHS was started in 1947 the average life span was around 66 it is now over 81. That is an awful lot of pensioners and retired with knee, hip and other joints that need replacing. Technology also plays a great deal in extending our life expectancy with many many preventative checks that could have only been dreamed of in 1947, the cost of running the NHS has increased from around 3-3.5% of GDP to now a whopping 7.26%. I do however wonder what inefficiencies there are at the top and how many empire builders are employed?

Your are correct, but the extended life expectancy and cost of tech/meds etc didn't happen overnight . If anything the NHS was involved from day one and should have evolved and adapted . If you started a business with free money in 1947 you would look pretty bloody stupid if the same business was in serious trouble 75 years later .

I know the NHS is not a business, but it surely needs some business minds at the top .

 

[Darrell]

I know the NHS is not a business, but it surely needs some business minds at the top .

Like this guy?

Director paid £2,000 a day to cut NHS trust costs axed by health board

Management consultant, Phillip Burns (left), who was paid almost £2,000 a day to cut costs at a struggling NHS trust while living in Marbella has himself been axed - to help it save money.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[st13phil]

If you started a business with free money in 1947 you would look pretty bloody stupid if the same business was in serious trouble 75 years later

The irony is that when the NHS was started in 1947 nobody had a clue how much it would cost, nor whether it was affordable.

75 years on and all that has been learned is that it will always cost more than we spend, but we soldier on regardless, clinging to a model that no other developed nation thought good enough to be worth replicating for themselves.

We now have a country attached to a health provider that is treated as a national religion. Which is insane.

 

[Tonye]

We now have a country attached to a health provider that is treated as a national religion. Which is insane.

That's why we are the envie of the world

 

[Dryce]

We now have a country attached to a health provider that is treated as a national religion. Which is insane.

I thnk while there is an emotional-political attachment to the institution it's not a national religion. It's more akin to the monarchy perhaps.

It's not insane - the US setup is perhaps insane at way off one end of the health provision spectrum while other western countries are basically running setups spread across the middle ground part of the spectrum.

 

[190]

Reading what was said at PM questions today in response to the cost of energy issue I really think Boris is losing the plot. He seems very reluctant to provide any general respite to energy bills set to increase by 50% next April. He mutters about increasing help to the poor but by that he only means people on benefits The UK has done nothing to address the fact that energy bills are loaded between 17% and 28% with levies, while every country in Europe except Luxembourg has cut taxes or levies in response to the energy crisis. For the comparative rich folk of MBclub perhaps this isn't such an issue but it will be for the red wall voters and many more low income voters not on benefits. Boris has made some gaffs so it's disappointing he appears to be making another misjudgment on a major political issue that may come back to bite him at the next election. We need Boris to join the real world and make the same common sense shift in judgment on Green issues as he recently did with Sage.

National policies to shield consumers from rising energy prices | Bruegel

If you see one tick in a box for the UK in the above link then read the notes and you will see it still means the UK has done nothing.

 

[st13phil]

It's not insane

I disagree.

We have a healthcare system that costs roughly the same as those in the upper quartile of OECD countries but is at the bottom of the pile in terms of performance. Yet we are unable to even question its structure, management and fitness for purpose, let alone reform it to make it better because it is (wrongly, IMO) lionised as being “wonderful” and “threatened” by any attempt to change it.

The last two years have been unusual in terms of there being a pandemic, but shutting down the country to protect its healthcare system is now seen as an acceptable way to proceed. That’s a healthcare system with a country attached and will only serve to compound the already serious problems we have with the NHS by increasing its power.