The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

KillerHERTZ

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Welcome to the mbclub.co.uk UK Politics thread, please use this thread as the only place on the forum we permit Political/Politics/Brexit discussions
By replying to this thread you will agree to the following rules:


-Do not make personal attacks on other members - as per the rest of the site.
-Understand that people have different opinions than yourself
-Do not mention any form of Religion within this thread, or the forum itself.


Additional rules may be added at a later date.


Try to keep the thread from becoming heated, its a trial and its in everyone's interest to keep it running as smooth as possible :thumb:
 
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SPX

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As someone who's grown up in a Labour stronghold, I despair of what the party has become, and it's not that I'm a supporter per se it's just we need an effective opposition to hold the government to account which it quite clearly is not.
 

SPX

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Labour will not be in power for at least the next 20 years.
Hard to say how long they'll be in the wilderness for but it'll definitely be until the next election.
 

SPX

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Moreover, we have another Megalomaniac up here, Nicola Sturgeon, god help us.
I believe Scotland should be independent if that's what the people want but I really don't understand her/Salmond when they say they want to leave The Union but stay part of the EU?

Isn't that a bit meet the new boss, same as the old boss?
 

renault12ts

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It's politics...never happen.

Scotland cannot afford to go it alone with the price of oil being what it is.
 

st13phil

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As someone who's grown up in a Labour stronghold, I despair of what the party has become, and it's not that I'm a supporter per se it's just we need an effective opposition to hold the government to account which it quite clearly is not.
I wholeheartedly agree on both points. The absence of a viable opposition is a very dangerous political place to be :(
 

HB

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I believe Scotland should be independent if that's what the people want but I really don't understand her/Salmond when they say they want to leave The Union but stay part of the EU?

Isn't that a bit meet the new boss, same as the old boss?
Scotland would be a total shambles as an independent country.

This is just typical SNP nonsense, half of them can't even wake up and tie their own show laces.
 

nick mercedes

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Labour will not be in power for at least the next 20 years.
Don't be so sure, politics have changed, there's a desire among the young for a new type of politician.
 

markjay

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Labour will not be in power for at least the next 20 years.

Moreover, we have another Megalomaniac up here, Nicola Sturgeon, god help us.
Hard to say how long they'll be in the wilderness for but it'll definitely be until the next election.
This is the issue for every political party.... their hard core supporters are always in the fringes, while most of the population is closer to the centre.

One accusations levelled against Tony Blair's New Labour was that the Labour party under his leadership moved away from it's core values (from privations and PFI to clamp-down on single mothers' benefits). But Labour made it into Government.

Setting aside the personalties (Corbyn / Blair etc), I actually find it refreshing that a Labour leader upholds his party's core values, but as others said it will not get Labour the majority vote and they will remain in opposition for the foreseeable future. The change will cone a 'New New Labour' leader will move the party to the centre-left again, where majorities are to be found.

This is probably the by-product of having too many political parties... it was interesting to see that in the 2008 US elections the Democrats' candidates were a woman and a black man, while the Republicans nominated a white male ex-jetfigther pilot who was a POW in 'nam'.
 
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markjay

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Trouble is, his name isn't Jeremy Corbyn:doh:
UKIP would have had a bigger following had Farage stayed on as leader.
I don't necessarily agree with what Nigel Farage says or believes in, BUT I have immense respect for him for the way he carried his party over the past decade and for his achievements through perseverance, commitment, debate and democratic process, and most importantly without zig-zaging left-right-and-centre in chasing voters as most politicians seems to be doing these days. On balance, I don't want to see UKIP in power, but I would like to see politicians of this type leading also the other political parties. Just my own personal view.
 

AMGeed

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Where ever he goes there are huge crowds of supporters

Thanks to him the labour party has the largest number of members of any political party in western Europe.

He's won 2 leadership battles.

But people say he's a loser?
He is leader of a split party and when the next election comes around will be proven to be a loser.
The Tories need a strong opposition and in Corbyn's Labour, they don't have it.
Seen the latest opinion polls?
 

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He is leader of a split party and when the next election comes around will be proven to be a loser.
It's a party where the members/voters want one thing, and the entrenched westminster set MPs want another.

But oddly for a loser he keeps winning things.
 

Alfie

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Where ever he goes there are huge crowds of supporters

Thanks to him the labour party has the largest number of members of any political party in western Europe.

He's won 2 leadership battles.

But people say he's a loser?
A huge number of their members are simply members to vote him to stay there knowing he will lose the election. I know lots of people who would never vote Labour in a million years but have joined purely to keep him there.

You also need to put into context how he won those battles. It was the far left influence that swayed things in a similar way they diverted David Miliband from winning in the last few moments.

When all is said and done can anyone honestly say they can see Corbyn being an effective leader of our country on the world stage? Can anyone see him standing with other world leaders and being respected? He is from the Michael Foot camp except Foot was actually more intelligent than Corbyn.

All goverments need a strong and effective opposition to challenge and offer different view points. Labour simply cannot offer that at this time.
 

knighterrant

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nick mercedes said:
Where ever he goes there are huge crowds of supporters Thanks to him the labour party has the largest number of members of any political party in western Europe. He's won 2 leadership battles. But people say he's a loser?
Hitler always had much larger crowds of supporters than Corbyn. Hitler was one of the world's greatest ever orators and, like Farage, he never wavered in his politics. Do voters really follow who's best for the country and its people? Or are voters too easily led down the wrong path by rhetoric? Is Brexit the latest example of that?

It must be a very difficult path for politicians to tread. Aim for votes to get into power by swaying from their true beliefs, beliefs that could be best for the country as a whole? Or stick to their guns and risk not getting sufficient votes in order to implement their policies? I fear that the preponderance is very much for the former, and getting worse.

Chasing votes used to be easy because the vast majority of the voting public were entirely ignorant of politics, economics and world events. It became more of a challenge as newspapers published biased views that effectively swayed opinions. Now that we have access to the world of information on the Internet we can all learn so much before deciding which way to vote. But although we're now better informed, the vast majority of us still only have a relatively small amount of knowledge of the factors we really need to make a valued judgement. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It's really still a guessing game.

So what do politicians do to generate maximum support? They target the desires of the most vociferous in society and pander to their whims, no matter how ridiculous or dangerous. Thence Trump!

I've never voted Labour in my life, but I admire Corbyn for the stance he is taking. Had he been more forceful over Brexit and securely pinned his colours to the mast, my opinion of him would be even greater. I still hope he succeeds, but in the right way. I'm not interested in the usual opposition party line of going against everything proposed by the government. What's wrong with agreement when it's a sound proposition? Probably because if it proves to be wrong further down the line it's easier and so much more satisfying to say that you always objected. Sure, everything has to be challenged to ensure it's been given full consideration, but after exploring those avenues why not work together for the benefit of as many as possible?
 

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It's a party where the members/voters want one thing, and the entrenched westminster set MPs want another.

But oddly for a loser he keeps winning things.
Does it matter what he wins if he can't win a general election?
 

markjay

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It's a party where the members/voters want one thing, and the entrenched westminster set MPs want another.

But oddly for a loser he keeps winning things.
A huge number of their members are simply members to vote him to stay there knowing he will lose the election. I know lots of people who would never vote Labour in a million years but have joined purely to keep him there.

You also need to put into context how he won those battles. It was the far left influence that swayed things in a similar way they diverted David Miliband from winning in the last few moments.

When all is said and done can anyone honestly say they can see Corbyn being an effective leader of our country on the world stage? Can anyone see him standing with other world leaders and being respected? He is from the Michael Foot camp except Foot was actually more intelligent than Corbyn.

All goverments need a strong and effective opposition to challenge and offer different view points. Labour simply cannot offer that at this time.
Corbyn wins 'things' in internal Labour elections. But the Labour party needs the great British public to vote for them, if they want to make a difference. Having support from a majority within his party but only from a minority of overall UK voters won't do Corbyn (and Labour) much good.
 

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