The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[Deleted member 65149]

Could someone please tell me a specific measurable benefit we are now seeing from Brexit? Just one, has to be specific and measurable though, not the ludicrous fantasy of £350 million extra per week for our NHS painted on the side of a bus.

With a tape measure and a set of scales we could take a stab at measuring one particular benefit we're already seeing from Brexit: Ursula von Der Leyen isn't our president.

I wonder how many specific measurable benefits we saw within just three and a half months of first joining the EU (EEC) in January 1973. Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[ChipChop]

So I am not the only one baffled by this odd statement made by the landlord?



Good to know that I am not alone then.

The angry publican does mention Office of National Statistics figures which do confirm the mean (average) age in years of those who died due to Covid-19 being higher than the mean age in years of those who died involving Covid-19. I am sure there are also stats for mean ages of death prior to this pandemic on HM Governments ONS site if anyone is of a mind to do a search.

Average age of those who had died with COVID-19 - Office for National Statistics

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[davymead]

I continue to be surprised at the subjective ‘analysis’ and economic and political illiteracy of those who first demanded that the UK become a third country via Brexit, immediately prior to bemoaning that the UK has become a third country via Brexit.

Followed swiftly by that old ‘it’s not fair Miss, now they are being horrible to me and it’s all their fault.’

And all finished off with that favoured classic line, well the EU will fail soon anyway, and I have the figures to prove it....

Our country, Britain, had until recently thrived as a cosmopolitan society, our scientists, engineers, political leaders and countless others gave us a strong voice across Europe and the world, with quality health care, reliable roads and transport infrastructure (!) and jobs at home.

Now, along with many other things we are infested with crappy falling apart roads wrecking our cars, failing health care, higher taxes (!) failing international trade, and politicians in charge who hand out wads of taxpayer (our) cash to their friends and family while nurses asking for a decent pay rise get told by the same politicians to suck it up!

But of course it’s all Europe’s fault isn’t it?

Could someone please tell me a specific measurable benefit we are now seeing from Brexit? Just one, has to be specific and measurable though, not the ludicrous fantasy of £350 million extra per week for our NHS painted on the side of a bus.

We’ve shut ourselves off from our closest commercial and financial markets, are seeing quality jobs and businesses moving abroad virtually every day, and experiencing widespread corruption at the top which means less money for health, roads and homes.

And the latest news? Well as a third country (our choice) every export UK businesses make now pay additional customs charges/VAT/transport fees under international (not EU) laws. However the UK Government, scared witless, is running away from all checking and tariff levying on imports to the UK from abroad until at least January 2022! This proving a smugglers charter, done because without open borders our food, medical and car production supplies etc would be drying up.

So the UK Government, which promised they’d take back control of our borders, has thrown them open to all, because the alternative is chaos. If you do fancy a start to a new drugs/dangerous goods/weapons smuggling enterprise, now is a good time

As any successful business will tell you, shouting at, insulting or otherwise slagging off the customer really is a bad idea.

Additionally threatening to ignore or breach international laws and ignoring our own as the UK is doing means trust is gone, trust being a key factor in any business relationship, international finance, commerce and diplomatic relations.

All this bull and bluster about Brexit and Europe is exactly that, bull and bluster. But the reality for us and our children’s future is that we are now haemorrhaging expertise, trade, jobs and international respect. But of course, we don’t need that do we, and anyway it’s all the EUs fault isn’t it, after all they started it Miss......doh!

Your inane remainer tirade is as so often read, riddled with blinkered, fanciful and bitter inaccuracies. To render any opposition onto the back foot, allegedly we now have to give answers to your schoolboy question of ‘name but one leaving benefit’ when all along the reality is you need to explain the same one reason for staying. Some wonderfully preposterous rants but have to say one particular rant of yours blaming Brexit for potholes is a new one on me.
Our politicians are far from being perfect in any way, but they’re OUR elected politicians. There’s my one reason.

 

[markjay]

The angry publican does mention Office of National Statistics figures which do confirm the mean (average) age in years of those who died due to Covid-19 being higher than the mean age in years of those who died involving Covid-19. I am sure there are also stats for mean ages of death prior to this pandemic on HM Governments ONS site if anyone is of a mind to do a search.

Average age of those who had died with COVID-19 - Office for National Statistics

www.ons.gov.uk

I think I am starting to see the landlord's point.

This could be developed beyond COVID, though. His rationale has the potential for a fairer allocation of NHS resources, well beyond the current health crisis.

Any patients presenting themselves at an NHS surgery or hospital, will be duely turned-away once they have reached the average life expectancy age.

In fact, this could be widened to all public services: once you've 'had your life', no more public money will be spent on you.

And, the money saved on treating those who already 'had their lives', will be better spent on helping small businesses such as struggling pubs and restaurants, on paying higher unemployment benefits, and on mental health clinics for the younger population.

It's only fair, I think.

Or, do you think I may have misunderstood the landlord's point?

 

[Nicebutdim]

I can’t understand why the ultra-remainers continue to torture themselves by trying to pretend that Brexit has not happened.

They’re like Gollum from Tolkeins Ring who have become twisted and distorted inside by chasing the unachievable.

Perhaps it’s a form of self hatred.

So I say this to the remainer Gollums. I feel your pain, I feel your shame, but you must let it go, you will shrivel up inside if you don’t.

We forgive you, come over to the happy side. Us leavers are having a ball. We are truly happy.

 

[ChipChop]

I think I am starting to see the landlord's point.

This could be developed beyond COVID, though. His rationale has the potential for a fairer allocation of NHS resources, well beyond the current health crisis.

Any patients presenting themselves at an NHS surgery or hospital, will be duely turned-away once they have reached the average life expectancy age.

In fact, this could be widened to all public services: once you've 'had your life', no more public money will be spent on you.

And, the money saved on treating those who already 'had their lives', will be better spent on helping small businesses such as struggling pubs and restaurants, on paying higher unemployment benefits, and on mental health clinics for the younger population.

It's only fair, I think.

Or, do you think I may have misunderstood the landlord's point?

I must have missed the bit where the publican is demanding an end to NHS palliative care.

What was Starmers reply? Hopefully the labour leader made a passionate speech on the vast waste of resources currently being spaffed on NHS X that could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[C240Sport97]

I think I am starting to see the landlord's point.

This could be developed beyond COVID, though. His rationale has the potential for a fairer allocation of NHS resources, well beyond the current health crisis.

Any patients presenting themselves at an NHS surgery or hospital, will be duely turned-away once they have reached the average life expectancy age.

In fact, this could be widened to all public services: once you've 'had your life', no more public money will be spent on you.

And, the money saved on treating those who already 'had their lives', will be better spent on helping small businesses such as struggling pubs and restaurants, on paying higher unemployment benefits, and on mental health clinics for the younger population.

It's only fair, I think.

Or, do you think I may have misunderstood the landlord's point?

not the landlord's point at all .. he was upset at having to close his pub for months, and the constant threat of losing his livelihood

the point is simple .. CV19 risk is overblown as the risks are focused on the very old, and yet we lock up the young, healthy and those not at material serious risk from CV19

 

[JHS]

Independence is such a chore for some isn't it. Someone get Ursula Von Trapp a chair please. After all she is terribly important don't you know.

What a brilliant response in support of Brexit!

 

[st13phil]

The nationalists’ vaccine fallacy - Alex Massie in The Spectator:

According to Sturgeon, there is 'absolutely no evidential basis to say Scotland would not have vaccinated as many people as we’ve vaccinated right now' if it were an independent state. This is, to use the technical term, bollocks on a tartan pogo-stick.

...it is an unerring rule of Scottish politics that the Scottish government earns credit for nice things that are not its responsibility while the Westminster administration is blamed for anything disagreeable, including plenty of disappointments for which it is not in fact responsible

It will remain the case that the SNP will earn credit for decisions the Scottish government did not make while slipping away from responsibility for errors made as a consequence of some of the choices it did. This is an in-built and structural advantage enjoyed by any Scottish government but especially a nationalist one.

Full article:

The nationalists' vaccine fallacy

The trouble with nationalism of any and every sort is that, in the end, it eats your brain. As evidence of this we may simply note Nicola Sturgeon’s assertions this week that the success of Britain’s vaccination programme should in no way encourage the thought an independent Scotland might have...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[Big Janner]

With a tape measure and a set of scales we could take a stab at measuring one particular benefit we're already seeing from Brexit: Ursula von Der Leyen isn't our president.

I wonder how many specific measurable benefits we saw within just three and a half months of first joining the EU (EEC) in January 1973. Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.

The CV19 vaccine rollout

 

[C240Sport97]

According to Sturgeon, there is 'absolutely no evidential basis to say Scotland would not have vaccinated as many people as we’ve vaccinated right now' if it were an independent state. This is, to use the technical term, bollocks on a tartan pogo-stick.

right out of Trump's playbook

 

[DSM10000]

I continue to be surprised at the subjective ‘analysis’ and economic and political illiteracy of those who first demanded that the UK become a third country via Brexit, immediately prior to bemoaning that the UK has become a third country via Brexit.

Followed swiftly by that old ‘it’s not fair Miss, now they are being horrible to me and it’s all their fault.’

And all finished off with that favoured classic line, well the EU will fail soon anyway, and I have the figures to prove it....

Our country, Britain, had until recently thrived as a cosmopolitan society, our scientists, engineers, political leaders and countless others gave us a strong voice across Europe and the world, with quality health care, reliable roads and transport infrastructure (!) and jobs at home.

Now, along with many other things we are infested with crappy falling apart roads wrecking our cars, failing health care, higher taxes (!) failing international trade, and politicians in charge who hand out wads of taxpayer (our) cash to their friends and family while nurses asking for a decent pay rise get told by the same politicians to suck it up!

But of course it’s all Europe’s fault isn’t it?

Could someone please tell me a specific measurable benefit we are now seeing from Brexit? Just one, has to be specific and measurable though, not the ludicrous fantasy of £350 million extra per week for our NHS painted on the side of a bus.

We’ve shut ourselves off from our closest commercial and financial markets, are seeing quality jobs and businesses moving abroad virtually every day, and experiencing widespread corruption at the top which means less money for health, roads and homes.

And the latest news? Well as a third country (our choice) every export UK businesses make now pay additional customs charges/VAT/transport fees under international (not EU) laws. However the UK Government, scared witless, is running away from all checking and tariff levying on imports to the UK from abroad until at least January 2022! This proving a smugglers charter, done because without open borders our food, medical and car production supplies etc would be drying up.



As any successful business will tell you, shouting at, insulting or otherwise slagging off the customer really is a bad idea.

Additionally threatening to ignore or breach international laws and ignoring our own as the UK is doing means trust is gone, trust being a key factor in any business relationship, international finance, commerce and diplomatic relations.

All this bull and bluster about Brexit and Europe is exactly that, bull and bluster. But the reality for us and our children’s future is that we are now haemorrhaging expertise, trade, jobs and international respect. But of course, we don’t need that do we, and anyway it’s all the EUs fault isn’t it, after all they started it Miss......doh!

Are you conveniently forgetting the hype, bluster, and falsehoods but forward by the remain side as to the disasters that would befall the UK
if we had the temerity to exercise a democratic right to vote leave?

Covid has skewed many things as it is clearly an international priority but the UK has shown great foresight in providing large amounts of money into vaccine research thus giving us a significant and vital head start over our European neighbours.

The complete chaos and farce within the EU on this is a perfect demonstration of the inflexible and overly bureaucratic nature of the organization It also shows in the way that the EU has tried to commandeer vaccienes. ordered and paid for by others how little regard it's leaders have for law and fairness if they can invoke some EU-centric directive to try to cover up for their own incompetence..

The UK economy like others has taken a very substantial hit because of Covid but forecasts are that it is recovering and will recover stronger and faster than that of the EU.

Where is the evidence that we are " haemorrhaging expertise, trade, jobs, and international respect" ?

Also, to say that "the UK Government, which promised they’d take back control of our borders, has thrown them open to all, because the alternative is chaos. If you do fancy a start to a new drugs/dangerous goods/weapons smuggling enterprise, now is a good time" is frankly ridiculous,

The French government has a legal duty to provide resources to refugees that are within the EU but for years they have often turned a blind eye to this problem and have put very few resources into preventing the migrants from crossing the channel or in trying to stop the people smuggling operations at their source. This is an EU problem that they cannot or will not try to solve.

 

[Swotty]

Someone at the UN has a sense of humour, it seems:

Iran to Chair UN's Women's Rights Commission

The UN’s Economic and Social Council has elected Iran to a 4-year term leading the Commission on the Status of Women (CSR), a group which describes itself

order-order.com

Rumour now has it that Venezuela will be leading the commission on fiscal responsibility.

 

[Connoisseur]

Are you conveniently forgetting the hype, bluster, and falsehoods but forward by the remain side as to the disasters that would befall the UK
if we had the temerity to exercise a democratic right to vote leave?

Covid has skewed many things as it is clearly an international priority but the UK has shown great foresight in providing large amounts of money into vaccine research thus giving us a significant and vital head start over our European neighbours.

The complete chaos and farce within the EU on this is a perfect demonstration of the inflexible and overly bureaucratic nature of the organization It also shows in the way that the EU has tried to commandeer vaccienes. ordered and paid for by others how little regard it's leaders have for law and fairness if they can invoke some EU-centric directive to try to cover up for their own incompetence..

The UK economy like others has taken a very substantial hit because of Covid but forecasts are that it is recovering and will recover stronger and faster than that of the EU.

Where is the evidence that we are " haemorrhaging expertise, trade, jobs, and international respect" ?

Also, to say that "the UK Government, which promised they’d take back control of our borders, has thrown them open to all, because the alternative is chaos. If you do fancy a start to a new drugs/dangerous goods/weapons smuggling enterprise, now is a good time" is frankly ridiculous,

The French government has a legal duty to provide resources to refugees that are within the EU but for years they have often turned a blind eye to this problem and have put very few resources into preventing the migrants from crossing the channel or in trying to stop the people smuggling operations at their source. This is an EU problem that they cannot or will not try to solve.

Just because you ignore things doesn’t mean they are not happening you know. I won’t post the links because it’s clear you won’t read them; there are jobs and livelihoods being lost every day, in the fishing industry in Scotland and Cornwall, in the thousands of SME’s who have either moved their business to the EU on advice from the UK Government!, or cut jobs and reduced trading, or the City traders which have moved to Frankfurt and Dublin, taking £Billions with them etc etc etc. It’s ok to keep the blinkers on, but please don’t claim it’s not happening. Open your eyes before it’s too late, no?

 

[Harrythedog]

Just because you ignore things doesn’t mean they are not happening you know. I won’t post the links because it’s clear you won’t read them; there are jobs and livelihoods being lost every day, in the fishing industry in Scotland and Cornwall, in the thousands of SME’s who have either moved their business to the EU on advice from the UK Government!, or cut jobs and reduced trading, or the City traders which have moved to Frankfurt and Dublin, taking £Billions with them etc etc etc. It’s ok to keep the blinkers on, but please don’t claim it’s not happening. Open your eyes before it’s too late, no?

Please post the links

 

[Nicebutdim]

Please post the links

+1

 

[DSM10000]

Just because you ignore things doesn’t mean they are not happening you know. I won’t post the links because it’s clear you won’t read them; there are jobs and livelihoods being lost every day, in the fishing industry in Scotland and Cornwall, in the thousands of SME’s who have either moved their business to the EU on advice from the UK Government!, or cut jobs and reduced trading, or the City traders which have moved to Frankfurt and Dublin, taking £Billions with them etc etc etc. It’s ok to keep the blinkers on, but please don’t claim it’s not happening. Open your eyes before it’s too late, no?

A remoaner to the core I see.

Your arrogance is only outshone by your ignorance.

Traders have not moved an masse , the financial services industry is still very much centred in London and the UK.

The complete intransigence of the EU during Brexit is to be expected because it is incapable of any novel or innovative thought because only the blinkered and unwavering commitment to the "Project" of creating a European superstate is something that they can think or care about even to the detriment of their own citizens.

 

[Fununcle]

A remoaner to the core I see.

Your arrogance is only outshone by your ignorance.

Traders have not moved an masse , the financial services industry is still very much centred in London and the UK.

The complete intransigence of the EU during Brexit is to be expected because it is incapable of any novel or innovative thought because only the blinkered and unwavering commitment to the "Project" of creating a European superstate is something that they can think or care about even to the detriment of their own citizens.

Pot, kettle

 

[C240Sport97]

Can I encourage folks living in England close to Scotland to travel to Scotland to have a meal indoors please.

Sturgeon's attempt to enforce a hard border between England and Scotland must be fully resisted and disobeyed.

 

[DSM10000]

Pot, kettle

If you had ever posted anything of intellectual worth on here previously I might care about your response.

Another one for the ignore list.