The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[neilrr]

I have an extremely bad case of Scotland & especially Sturgeon fatigue.

Tired of hearing about one & from the other

 

[Red C220]

It could be worse, we could be Americans.

 

[st13phil]

I have an extremely bad case of Scotland & especially Sturgeon fatigue.

Tired of hearing about one & from the other

^ +1

She and her fellow fishy-sounding friend are loudmouth opportunists with a single issue agenda. She's smart though, and knows that were she to call a second independence referendum now it would result in another defeat which would effectively put an end to her party's dreams and raison d'etre. Unfortunately, that means we have to listen to her strident tub-thumping for the foreseeable future

 

[Stratman]

I watched Question Time last night as I do most weeks.

When it's from Wales or Scotland, the panel is dominated by Welsh or Scottish politicos as you'd expect and they discuss mainly national matters. When it's from England we still get moaners like Salmond on the panel droning on about Scotland.

 

[Druk]

I have an extremely bad case of Scotland & especially Sturgeon fatigue.

Tired of hearing about one & from the other

Thank your lucky stars you don't receive BBC Scotland. Whatever you get we get twice. Once on the main news then again on the SNP propaganda channel.

I watched Question Time last night as I do most weeks.

When it's from Wales or Scotland, the panel is dominated by Welsh or Scottish politicos as you'd expect and they discuss mainly national matters. When it's from England we still get moaners like Salmond on the panel droning on about Scotland.

I've no idea what he was doing on there but I turned it off. He used to be a good orator too. That was then....

 

[Giantvanman]

Do voters really follow who's best for the country and its people? Or are voters too easily led down the wrong path by rhetoric? Is Brexit the latest example of that?

The campaign to leave won despite having a clown, a snake and a Farage leading the way and some would argue that the clown and the snake didn't really put their backs into it and the Farage was virtually sidelined.

It is my opinion that the result was the culmination of a perfect storm in this sense, in brief:-

Since joining the Common Market, successive prime ministers signed up to ever increasing oversight and control by Brussels without consulting the citizenry. What that morphed into was ideal for national politicians and governments to hide behind and the perfect scapegoat for the latest hardship or unwanted edict, allowing them to wring their hands in that perfectly acted, resigned manner they portray so beautifully rather than being honest by admitting that they had a hand in the negations leading to the end result.

Running parallel to this is growing public discontent with politicians generally, whether that be distaste at the excesses, rule breaking and air of snakiness or in general terms in relation to not feeling represented i.e. the electorate clued into how the new breed of politico was happy to say anything to gain power knowing full well it was an act.

Then along comes the Blair/Brown government with it's spin machine and bullying tactics. Typical of politicians, I doubt they gave a second's thought to informing the public of their reasoning and rationale for promoting their policy of unrestricted immigration.

Let me say that I think immigration is a good thing for a nation and it's peoples. It brings different skills and perspectives and so, so much more.

However, unrestricted immigration is very bad because there is no comparable increase in the provision of healthcare, schooling, infrastructure or housing and even if they wanted to increase those services, the bodies responsible couldn't realistically plan ahead without being able to reasonably predict demand. All that happens is that intolerable strain is put on existing services and provisions.

Whether you agree or not with my concerns, I hope that they read as I intend, namely as genuine concerns for the country and it's people and nothing to do with race, religion or anything else.

What Blair/Brown did though was to trot out one mouthpiece after another to preach "rich multiculturalism" and scream racist at any person or group who so much as said, "But what about....?"

Then there was the war mongering and the more than dubious reasons for going to war half a world away, displaying perfectly the discord between what the electorate wanted and what politicians would say and do to get their way.

Ignored, despised, treated with contempt, preached at in the most condescending and patronising way possible, the electorate said enough and Brexit came about.

The irony is that the very people in positions of power who wanted us to remain provided the perfect climate for a leave win, despite having a clown, a snake and a Farage at the helm and up against virtually every celeb/personality/sports star, politician, expert, business leader, religious leader etc etc.

I firmly believe that had politicians shown a modicum of respect for and understanding of the electorate, Leave would not have triumphed. Instead, out they trotted the same condescending and patronising rhetoric, followed by threats and followed up with, of course, the racism label.

What exactly are they good for? I mean, where's the joined up thinking? For example, despite unrelenting massive demand for housing, despite doing nothing or very little to stem immigration, despite being unable to meet demand for social housing with new builds, not only have they all continued with the policy of selling of council houses, not only are they now looking at forcing housing associations to sell their properties, they are forcing tenants out of inner city locations because they cannot pay economic rent. And that's without bringing the 'bedroom tax' into the picture. Why has no politician of any party questioned the illogical pursuit of such a damaging policy?

Could it be because it doesn't affect them directly? They created this ludicrous position and are seemingly unable to provide a solution despite there logically being more than one obvious partial remedy.

Basically, politicians couldn't give two hoots for the electorate until the people they trod on, trip them up.....at least with Brussels out of the picture, they won't have anything to hide behind and we will be able to see their successes and failures more clearly, I hope.

 

[nick mercedes]

Does it matter what he wins if he can't win a general election?

Only the elderly think that way though.

People are pretty sick of what passes for government these days, and someone who puts the needs of the nation first is going to get wide spread appeal among the younger less tribal voter.

 

[nick mercedes]

Corbyn wins 'things' in internal Labour elections. But the Labour party needs the great British public to vote for them, if they want to make a difference. Having support from a majority within his party but only from a minority of overall UK voters won't do Corbyn (and Labour) much good.

You may underestimate the real thirst for change that exists.

The wealthy elderly would vote for a dustbin if you painted it blue, but among the less fortunate, the people who actually go to work, things are very different.

 

[markjay]

You may underestimate the real thirst for change that exists.

The wealthy elderly would vote for a dustbin if you painted it blue, but among the less fortunate, the people who actually go to work, things are very different.

Hopefully the UK will never see elections like the one we have now in the US, where voters have to decide which candidate they don't want won't to vote for.

 

[st13phil]

Only the elderly think that way though.

But it's only the elderly that can be ar*d to go out and vote...

 

[grober]

I think we did pretty well there for a moment before Godwins Law [1990] asserted its inexorable truth. post 18 if I'm not mistaken ??
viz
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazism or Hitler approaches 1"—​​that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

 

[trapperjohn]

I dont see much of an age difference between nick mercedes and Renault 12 TS.

If you can only win a paper bag election but not punch your way out of it. Then you are on good money for doing nothing and your wages are paid for by errr me. Does that view make me elderly? That would probably be your view nick but not mine.

 

[Red C220]

Jeremy Corbyn is the best thing that's happened to the Conservative Party for decades.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that all these "new" members that signed up and voted for him were actually conservative party members.

There is currently no viable opposition to government.

 

[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

I suppose at the age of 64 I must qualify as "elderly" , ( and one who Always gets back to customers promptly ) , but I do speak to a lot of younger people , and find very few have a good word for " Mr Corbless me ,a lady wrote to me today". If that guy had his way we would have no military defence at all. If Teresa May called an election tomorrow she would well and truly trounce Labour. The only contribution he has made to the youth of today is to leave them with little choice to make in the next election. If more young people had voted ( only 65% of those under 40 could be bothered to vote), on Brexit ,that outcome may have been different. Don`t blame the greyheads for apathy on the part of the youngsters.

 

[grober]

This demographic may be of interest? Its interesting to compare the recent referendum results with the previous one in 1975 on membership of the economic community [ or Common Market as it was called] Unfortunately no figures for ages of the voters involved.
17,378,581 67.2% for staying 8,470,073 32.8% for leaving. A couple of aspects to that vote- many of the older folks who voted must have experienced/ fought in WORLD WAR 2 against the Germans. And two many who voted remain back then would be in the age group that predominantly voted leave this time. Just sayin.

 

[Red C220]

This demographic may be of interest?

25-49 - That's some spread.

 

[WG M-B]

This demographic may be of interest?

What's also interesting about that demographic is that, I fall into a certain age category.
Apparently my age category voted to stay, yet I know only 2 people in my age category who voted to remain.
I didn't vote because I was on the fence, but in hindsight I'm happy we left

 

[markjay]

Edit

 

[grober]

Interesting that some who experienced war in Europe at first hand may have voted for a Common Market as a stabilising influence unless they all voted no which seems unlikely. Perhaps also the optimism of the 60's generation You've never had it so good- Harold Macmillan The white hot heat of the technological revolution [that gave us Concorde] -Harold Wilson has been replaced with today's cynicism of all things foreign from the same generation. Maybe as we have all got better off we have become more selfish? Suffice it to say it would appear that the oldies have voted [ for better or worse] to shape a political future for the young they won't really be around to see.

 

[grober]

25-49 - That's some spread.

Not my graph sorry don't know how the age ranges displayed were decided. Certainly anomalous and percentages don't reveal actual numbers. Thought it was interesting all the same.