The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[Dryce]

The EU are quickly moving to eliminating an individual country's veto. It has already gone in several areas. Meet the new Borg.

Actually it's more a case of 'Meet the new Federation'.

You don't expect regions within a country like the UK or US to have a veto (though separatists in the UK who would probably be inclined to join the EU probably think they should have a veto).

 

[Nat]

Yes I know, its the Daily Mail, but I couldnt find another link to the item.

Government goes on war footing for Scots independence poll

Michael Gove is believed to have ordered the creation of a unit to combat propaganda from Nicola Sturgeon (pictured), with alarm that many of her claim are going 'uncontested'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It's the DM. I'll give it a miss on any day ending in the letter "y"

I haven't found a credible source to enforce your statement. So once in a generation vote no longer means that I guess?

 

[Nat]

The EU are quickly moving to eliminating an individual country's veto. It has already gone in several areas. Meet the new Borg.

The EU would like the direction they were going, which could have been anywhere to be fair. They now no longer know and still haven't agreed the CV19 bailout where the northern countries subsidise the southern countries. Quite shameful considering how long it's took them to get anywhere aka as nowhere. Greece, italy, Portugal and Spain must be spinning while France are still banging on about fish. The Euro isn't working out as well as they thought it would.

 

[flowrider]

It's the DM. I'll give it a miss on any day ending in the letter "y"

I haven't found a credible source to enforce your statement. So once in a generation vote no longer means that I guess?

I'm not sure what you mean. I stated in my post that opinion polls were showing growing support for independence, you said prove it so I provided a link showing the opinion polls and the results. Are you saying that opinion polls aren't showing growing support? As I said previously when/if there is another indyref it will be interesting to see how Scotland votes.

 

[Nat]

I'm not sure what you mean. I stated in my post that opinion polls were showing growing support for independence, you said prove it so I provided a link showing the opinion polls and the results. Are you saying that opinion polls aren't showing growing support? As I said previously when/if there is another indyref it will be interesting to see how Scotland votes.

You stated polls were growing for support to another. I didn't and don't really care why you think they were, are or will. There will not be another one in our lifetime despite what any poll says.

You provided links? Yes, you did. That means nothing in the grand scheme of things. In fact it means nothing at all and to be fair regardless of source and as pointed out before to how polls were against Brexit and Trump? It didn't really work well then either. When you see a poll that goes against, will you post that link as well please?

If and I mean a BIG IF, there was another referendum would you then agree to another when the SNP lose, maybe the best of 3? Where does it stop? Utter madness. Most people in the UK don't give a stuff for the SNP as they are just that. If however they were to gain ground throughout the rest of the UK then maybe will take notice. I don't see that ever happening.

Would you be happy for the whole of the UK to vote too?

I understand your passion for the topic but somewhere along the line you need to just accept a result. Maybe campaign against it. But Please posting utter drivel does not fight your corner nor will it ever gain another Indy Ref because Nippy says it's good for Scotland as Engurland is bad.

 

[flowrider]

You stated polls were growing for support to another. I didn't and don't really care why you think they were, are or will. There will not be another one in our lifetime despite what any poll says.

You provided links? Yes, you did. That means nothing in the grand scheme of things. In fact it means nothing at all and to be fair regardless of source and as pointed out before to how polls were against Brexit and Trump? It didn't really work well then either. When you see a poll that goes against, will you post that link as well please?

If and I mean a BIG IF, there was another referendum would you then agree to another when the SNP lose, maybe the best of 3? Where does it stop? Utter madness. Most people in the UK don't give a stuff for the SNP as they are just that. If however they were to gain ground throughout the rest of the UK then maybe will take notice. I don't see that ever happening.

Would you be happy for the whole of the UK to vote too?

I understand your passion for the topic but somewhere along the line you need to just accept a result. Maybe campaign against it. But Please posting utter drivel does not fight your corner nor will it ever gain another Indy Ref because Nippy says it's good for Scotland as Engurland is bad.

Where did you get that I agreed with the SNP from? I merely made an observation re opinion poll and stated a fact that they show support for independence.. I dont support the SNP, I dont agree with having another indyref, I would prefer we stayed as a United Kingdom. I really don't know what your issue is here.

I dont even have a passion for the subject!

 

[Nat]

Where did you get that I agreed with the SNP from? I merely made an observation re opinion poll and stated a fact that they show support for independence.. I dont support the SNP, I dont agree with having another indyref, I would prefer we stayed as a United Kingdom. I really don't know what your issue is here.

I dont even have a passion for the subject!

Simply responding to your statements you made on the SNP. If you had no passion then why bring it up? I hope it hasn't caused you any distress .....

Moving onwards.

Negotiations are due to conclude today. Deja Vu comments from Barnier and Frost later on no doubt.

 

[markjay]

EDIT

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Seems the SNP are allowing pubs to re-open soon, only proviso is no alcohol sales.

 

[flowrider]

Simply responding to your statements you made on the SNP. If you had no passion then why bring it up? I hope it hasn't caused you any distress .....

Moving onwards.

Negotiations are due to conclude today. Deja Vu comments from Barnier and Frost later on no doubt.

Is that a new forum rule....only post about something you are passionate about? Somewhere along the line you got the wrong impression from my posts so I think the one thing we can agree on is to move on.

 

[Dryce]

Seems the SNP are allowing pubs to re-open soon, only proviso is no alcohol sales.

Temperance movement by stealth.

 

[st13phil]

There's a crossover in this post to the Covid thread, but it's more about government, law, and the constitution, so I've put it here. A few excerpts to provide a taster:

During the Covid-19 pandemic, the British state has exercised coercive powers over its citizens on a scale never previously attempted. It has taken effective legal control, enforced by the police, over the personal lives of the entire population: where they could go, whom they could meet, what they could do even within their own homes.

The British public has not even begun to understand the seriousness of what is happening to our country. Many, perhaps most of them don’t care, and won’t care until it is too late. They instinctively feel that the end justifies the means, the motto of every totalitarian government which has ever been.

The government has discovered the power of public fear to let it get its way. It will not forget.

Government by decree: Covid-19 and the Constitution - Lord Sumption's Cambridge Freshfields Annual Law Lecture 27 October 2020

I'm pretty certain some (or perhaps all) of Sumption's points will be seized upon by tin-foil hat wearers to justify a multitude of conspiracy theories, but don't let that dilute the importance of his arguments. It's serious stuff.

 

[Swotty]

Temperance movement by stealth.

Fits in well with the religion of peace and sharia law, though.

 

[Swotty]

There's a crossover in this post to the Covid thread, but it's more about government, law, and the constitution, so I've put it here. A few excerpts to provide a taster:







Government by decree: Covid-19 and the Constitution - Lord Sumption's Cambridge Freshfields Annual Law Lecture 27 October 2020

I'm pretty certain some (or perhaps all) of Sumption's points will be seized upon by tin-foil hat wearers to justify a multitude of conspiracy theories, but don't let that dilute the importance of his arguments. It's serious stuff.

Thanks for posting that, MJ!

Sumption always talks sense, both logically and cogently. He has not, to my knowledge, advanced any conspiracy theories, though he does expertly say that the Govt and MSM have been conducting an orchestrated and continual campaign of fear.

We here in La Belle France are awaiting the announcement at 8 p.m. French time, when Macron will tell us the next steps in France's fight against the spread of covid. There are around 30 or so Départements (including my own) still rated as green, with very few covid numbers and few if any deaths. Nonetheless. we are now being told by every area of the French press that the whole country will be put in lockdown for 4 weeks.

Yeah ... and the rest. Whether it's tonight or not, national lockdown is inevitable.

Still I persuaded the missus to splash out on a tin of baked beans with sausages instead of the usual baked beans, so we will still be able to celebrate Christmas.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Still I persuaded the missus to splash out on a tin of baked beans with sausages instead of the usual baked beans, so we will still be able to celebrate Christmas.

You can take the lad out of Yorkshire but not Yorkshire out of the lad...

 

[Swotty]

You can take the lad out of Yorkshire but not Yorkshire out of the lad...

Careful ...... I'm doing the cooking this year!

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Careful ...... I'm doing the cooking this year!

 

[Nicebutdim]

Heard on the radio today that in Scotland the transfer of elderly patients from hospital into care homes did not actually contribute to the spread of covid in those settings.

This was a Scottish government report. Are they having a laugh???

 

[Dryce]

Heard on the radio today that in Scotland the transfer of elderly patients from hospital into care homes did not actually contribute to the spread of covid in those settings.

This was a Scottish government report. Are they having a laugh???

I think the technicality picked out and quoted by Ms Sturgeon was that there was no statistical evidence that the practice of sending positive tested and untested patients back to care homes contributed significantly to the number of deaths.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

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[Dryce]

Heard on the radio today that in Scotland the transfer of elderly patients from hospital into care homes did not actually contribute to the spread of covid in those settings.

This was a Scottish government report. Are they having a laugh???

I've now had a chance to read the full report.

It's just a bit of academic desk research. It uses supplied data for statistical analysis and makes a number of assumptions and qualified conclusions.

I was surprised that it is so limited in data collection. No surveys or field research.

The basics from the numbers they have allow them to figure the following:

1. Large care homes had a higher risk because they were large
2. Larger care homes would have had more patients discharged from hospital.
3. A higher proportion of larger care homes had Covid deaths

So this means that given the limitations of the data they have - and the assumptions they make about the data - then they can't actually distinguish much else.

As such it probably suits Ms Sturgeon and her administration for now.

I would assert that without additional data from surveys and field research - actually following up on a sample of discharge cases and care homes it's worthless - and cannot answer the actual question for which the public is entitled to have an answer.