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Oh, and Michael Gove's "Once we vote Leave, we hold all the cards"? He said this nonsense and he's still in office?
He is not the first politician to exaggerate. If you lose office for exaggerating, we will have no politicians in any office of state
 
Any claim that had a figure in it. On both sides. From the Boris Brexit Bus to David Cameron's careful calculation of how much worse-off each household will be once we left.

The simple fact is that the economic ties between the UK and the rest of Europe are far too complicated to fully put into an equation, not to mention the massive amount of guesswork and assumptions about future behaviours by various parties that went into those 'predictions'.
You want figures proven or checked for accuracy, yet you concede that it's too complicated.
 
You want figures proven or checked for accuracy, yet you concede that it's too complicated.

I want the facts checked for accuracy... and those who came-up with figures that they forgot to mention were based on some vague 'modelling', to accept that they misled the public. It will do them good to clear their conscience and get it off their chest.
 
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I want the facts checked for accuracy... and those who came-up with figures that they forgot to mention were based on some vague 'modelling', to accept that they misled the public. It will do them good to clear their conscience and get it off their chest.
I have left the discussion as I can see that to get any Brexiter to even consider that we agreed to a really bad deal is impossible. Even the suggestion of it was dismissed as a trite remark. We were outmaneuvered and our bluff re a hard Brexit was called.
In the short time that I took part I read nothing but sound bites, even the one about a EU army was regurgitated.
I can only conclude that Brexiters are satisfied with the agreement, that they believe that we have control of our seas and borders and that we hold all the cards.
Just one more thing, what, if any, benefits have accrued from Brexit. Cue wild claims re vaccines which have nothing to do with Brexit.
That is it, JHS has left the building.
 
knighterrant said:
..For 2021/22, the first full year of Coronavirus, the NHS budget is £160.9 billion. An increase of £23.6 billion...

How's this for an alternative explanation?
1. The first full year of Coronavirus was 2020/21
2. The NHS budget for that year was £149.8 billion PLUS £51.9 billion for Covid-19 funding
3. The NHS budget for 2021/22 was £160.9 billion PLUS £20.9 billion for Covid-19 funding.

So to answer your question, your explanation was rubbish!

 
I have left the discussion as I can see that to get any Brexiter to even consider that we agreed to a really bad deal is impossible. Even the suggestion of it was dismissed as a trite remark. We were outmaneuvered and our bluff re a hard Brexit was called.
In the short time that I took part I read nothing but sound bites, even the one about a EU army was regurgitated.
I can only conclude that Brexiters are satisfied with the agreement, that they believe that we have control of our seas and borders and that we hold all the cards.
Just one more thing, what, if any, benefits have accrued from Brexit. Cue wild claims re vaccines which have nothing to do with Brexit.
That is it, JHS has left the building.

Petulant post which perhaps rather defines the problems of the post 2016 period in ways the poster may not realise..
 
I have left the discussion as I can see that to get any Brexiter to even consider that we agreed to a really bad deal is impossible. Even the suggestion of it was dismissed as a trite remark. We were outmaneuvered and our bluff re a hard Brexit was called.
In the short time that I took part I read nothing but sound bites, even the one about a EU army was regurgitated.
I can only conclude that Brexiters are satisfied with the agreement, that they believe that we have control of our seas and borders and that we hold all the cards.
Just one more thing, what, if any, benefits have accrued from Brexit. Cue wild claims re vaccines which have nothing to do with Brexit.
That is it, JHS has left the building.
Equally there is no point trying to get a staunch remainer to accept that the vote for Brexit was, on the whole, simply about the majority of the voters rejecting the EU and it's increasing aim to towards centralising power within Brussels to be detriment of individual members sovereignty.

I, along with the majority of our friends (all well educated professional people including some both living in and some born in Central European countries, so not the normal " demographic as often painted by remainers) had made up our minds years before the referendum was offered so it matters not what was said, claimed, suggested etc

We, as I suspect was the case for the vast majority of those voting leave had simply had enough of an organisation that has far exceeded it's original remit without recourse to agreement from it's electorate, was patently undemocratic when it came to placing people into the very senior positions within the governing structures, was opaque when it came to publishing audited accounts of how our money was spent, has failing economic policies skewed to helping the Northern member states and, one which has a significantly history of ignoring or overriding member states democratically expressed views when they are not in line with those of the Commission.

So, the benefit of leaving is very simply not having to be governed by a wasteful, undemocratic organisation whose aims the majority did not agree with.

Yes there are consequences to leaving but nowhere near those dreamt up by Project Fear.

As for the referendum being a mistake.

I cannot agree.

Why should the population not be given a choice to freely express a view on a topic which so significantly affects our lives?

The decision has been taken, let us move on.
 
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I have left the discussion as I can see that to get any Brexiter to even consider that we agreed to a really bad deal is impossible. Even the suggestion of it was dismissed as a trite remark. We were outmaneuvered and our bluff re a hard Brexit was called.
In the short time that I took part I read nothing but sound bites, even the one about a EU army was regurgitated.
I can only conclude that Brexiters are satisfied with the agreement, that they believe that we have control of our seas and borders and that we hold all the cards.
Just one more thing, what, if any, benefits have accrued from Brexit. Cue wild claims re vaccines which have nothing to do with Brexit.
That is it, JHS has left the building.
Benefits since we left? Really? We’ve only just left and we’re in the middle of a pandemic 🤷‍♂️🙄

I didn’t vote for the benefits. I voted because I was sick of how badly it was run and we’ll be fine out of it.
 
I want the facts checked for accuracy... and those who came-up with figures that they forgot to mention were based on some vague 'modelling', to accept that they misled the public. It will do them good to clear their conscience and get it off their chest.
Good luck with getting that done 😂
 
I have left the discussion as I can see that to get any Brexiter to even consider that we agreed to a really bad deal is impossible. Even the suggestion of it was dismissed as a trite remark. We were outmaneuvered and our bluff re a hard Brexit was called.
In the short time that I took part I read nothing but sound bites, even the one about a EU army was regurgitated.
I can only conclude that Brexiters are satisfied with the agreement, that they believe that we have control of our seas and borders and that we hold all the cards.
Just one more thing, what, if any, benefits have accrued from Brexit. Cue wild claims re vaccines which have nothing to do with Brexit.
That is it, JHS has left the building.
often, those who have no real arguments storm out of a discussion ..

just like those politicians who walk out of TV interviews
 
Benefits since we left? Really? We’ve only just left and we’re in the middle of a pandemic 🤷‍♂️🙄

I didn’t vote for the benefits. I voted because I was sick of how badly it was run and we’ll be fine out of it.
+1

Funnily enough, the covid crisis is already exposing the most basic flaws in the EU Federal model in a way everyone can understand and relate to ... the vaccine hijacking and cancellation of Schengen open borders.

We're out. It isn't perfect and I for one would have loved to see a WTO exit, which we could have made work .... but not alongside covid.

Just think how well we'd succeed if everyone signed up to the decision to leave instead of bellyaching about red buses etc.

As an aside, hidden in the Budget small print is a commitment to restore UK voting rights for expats away from the UK for over 15 years ... we lost the right to vote here in France with immediate effect as a consequence of Brexit so Mrs Swotty and I, along with millions of others, are currently disenfranchised. It may happen, it may not. Seems unfair to me but doesn't change a jot my view that leaving the corrupt EU is in the best interests of the UK and the British people. Happy to take one for the team.

And both Mrs Swotty and I, having public sector pensions, pay our income taxes in the UK. The Chancellor takes what he wants and sends us the rest.
 
I have left the discussion as I can see that to get any Brexiter to even consider that we agreed to a really bad deal is impossible. Even the suggestion of it was dismissed as a trite remark. We were outmaneuvered and our bluff re a hard Brexit was called.
In the short time that I took part I read nothing but sound bites, even the one about a EU army was regurgitated.
I can only conclude that Brexiters are satisfied with the agreement, that they believe that we have control of our seas and borders and that we hold all the cards.
Just one more thing, what, if any, benefits have accrued from Brexit. Cue wild claims re vaccines which have nothing to do with Brexit.
That is it, JHS has left the building.
The issue with the negotiations and ending up with the deal we have is that there were too many "remain" political figures constantly trying to undermine the UK's position. The EU were clearly encouraged by the misconception that the referendum result was going to be overturned. If only parliament had got behind the voters decision to leave rather than obstructing every move the government tried to make and if we hadn't had a speaker clearly biased towards the "remain" side of the house plus of course Theresa May's clear bias, we may have made more progress.

Too many wanted to say "told you so" rather than showing solidarity.
 
Equally there is no point trying to get a staunch remainer to accept that the vote for Brexit was, on the whole, simply about the majority of the voters rejecting the EU and it's increasing aim to towards centralising power within Brussels to be detriment of individual members sovereignty.

I, along with the majority of our friends (all well educated professional people including some both living in and some born in Central European countries, so not the normal " demographic as often painted by remainers) had made up our minds years before the referendum was offered so it matters not what was said, claimed, suggested etc

We, as I suspect was the case for the vast majority of those voting leave had simply had enough of an organisation that has far exceeded it's original remit without recourse to agreement from it's electorate, was patently undemocratic when it came to placing people into the very senior positions within the governing structures, was opaque when it came to publishing audited accounts of how our money was spent, has failing economic policies skewed to helping the Northern member states and, one which has a significantly history of ignoring or overriding member states democratically expressed views when they are not in line with those of the Commission.

So, the benefit of leaving is very simply not having to be governed by a wasteful, undemocratic organisation whose aims the majority did not agree with.

Yes there are consequences to leaving but nowhere near those dreamt up by Project Fear.

As for the referendum being a mistake.

I cannot agree.

Why should the population not be given a choice to freely express a view on a topic which so significantly affects our lives?

The decision has been taken, let us move on.
I agree very much with so much of that,
now what can we do about that corrupt lot in London that fit many of your descriptions so well.

While they are more accountable voting them out and t'others in (which in truth looks like it 'aint gonna happen for a couple of decades), just seems like changing the bed sheets for last weeks w/o washing 'em. Still dirty.
 
Equally there is no point trying to get a staunch remainer to accept that the vote for Brexit was, on the whole, simply about the majority of the voters rejecting the EU and it's increasing aim to towards centralising power within Brussels to be detriment of individual members sovereignty.

I, along with the majority of our friends (all well educated professional people including some both living in and some born in Central European countries, so not the normal " demographic as often painted by remainers) had made up our minds years before the referendum was offered so it matters not what was said, claimed, suggested etc

We, as I suspect was the case for the vast majority of those voting leave had simply had enough of an organisation that has far exceeded it's original remit without recourse to agreement from it's electorate, was patently undemocratic when it came to placing people into the very senior positions within the governing structures, was opaque when it came to publishing audited accounts of how our money was spent, has failing economic policies skewed to helping the Northern member states and, one which has a significantly history of ignoring or overriding member states democratically expressed views when they are not in line with those of the Commission.

So, the benefit of leaving is very simply not having to be governed by a wasteful, undemocratic organisation whose aims the majority did not agree with.

Yes there are consequences to leaving but nowhere near those dreamt up by Project Fear.

As for the referendum being a mistake.

I cannot agree.

Why should the population not be given a choice to freely express a view on a topic which so significantly affects our lives?

The decision has been taken, let us move on.
Well said.
We all knew surely that the unelected politburo would be trying to grind us into the ground from day one, just to ‘teach us a lesson’ and show their alleged power over us.
Thinking that the benefits of leaving would shower down on us immediately is plainly stupid, realignment will take a fair while, and if there’s problems, no problem for me as I’d rather starve than bow to any man, let alone some bloated ex politician in Brussels.
Freedom for me always comes at a price, which in my case I’m more than willing to pay.
 
I agree very much with so much of that,
now what can we do about that corrupt lot in London that fit many of your descriptions so well.

While they are more accountable voting them out and t'others in (which in truth looks like it 'aint gonna happen for a couple of decades), just seems like changing the bed sheets for last weeks w/o washing 'em. Still dirty.
The main problem as I see it is having demonstrably more suitable “t’others” to vote for. The current opposition, and indeed the opposition of the recent past, has not presented itself as being a credible alternative to the present shower. If Labour or others want to be in power, they have to demonstrate that they are worthy of the post. Not happening right now. Simply disagreeing with the present incumbents is not good enough.
 

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