The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[MercedesDriver]

So the QT suggestion that if the eu say 5 years, he must accept?

Why would they say 5 years, they also want this mess finished asap?

 

[Dryce]

You can also imagine Swinson channeling her inner 1981 Steel and urging "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for government!"

Popcorn anyone?

Jo Swinson is in an odd position with her own seat. She lost it to the SNP in 2015 and got back in in 2017. It's not that safe. And I suspect that a proportion of her vote isn't pro-Libdem but rather anti-SNP from those who might otherwise vote Labour or Conservative if their preferred candidates were stronger propositions.

So given how crazy things are right now Ms Swinson could well go back to her own constituency in a GE and not return to westminster.

 

[219]

Not really true though is it?
He can resign at any time and hand over to the cat.

The cat might do a better job .

 

[Dryce]

The cat might do a better job .

I think 650 cats might be a major improvement.

OTOH that might have to be a ban on balls of wool and other distractions within the general vicinity of the HoC.

 

[AltonAnt]

For those interested in the concept of a European Army/Defence Force, this article makes interesting, if frightening, reading:

https://brexitcentral.com/beware-th...the-eu-and-not-just-in-the-draft-brexit-deal/

Anyone else frightened. No....Just you then
And the source. Please. If you go looking for biased content you will find it there.

Try this - The Brexit Party Manifesto - Hint you know it must be a spoof as they do not have one.

We have been working for many years on closer integration and many combined operations have been successful e.g KFOR, SFOR etc.
I'd be more worried about NOT being a part of it.

In other news - at least Mugabe has at least died.

 

[c63chris]

Anyone else frightened. No....Just you then
And the source. Please. If you go looking for biased content you will find it there.

Try this - The Brexit Party Manifesto - Hint you know it must be a spoof as they do not have one.

We have been working for many years on closer integration and many combined operations have been successful e.g KFOR, SFOR etc.
I'd be more worried about NOT being a part of it.

In other news - at least Mugabe has at least died.

Have to say of all the EU scare stories, the army one is one of the biggest p*ss takes in that it’s not necessarily a bad thing but hasn’t happened and probably won’t! The words clutching and straws spring to mind!

 

[m80]

Why would they say 5 years, they also want this mess finished asap?

As I see it that would be their preferred option 2 as it is effectively Remain.

Their prferrred option 1 would be the WA.
No Voice.
Pay Up as Directed.
Follow All Directives.

 

[Bellow]

Boris Johnson commenting on the Miliband brothers:

“Only a socialist could do that to his brother, only a socialist could regard familial ties as being so trivial as to shaft his own brother.''

 

[m80]

Boris Johnson commenting on the Miliband brothers:

“Only a socialist could do that to his brother, only a socialist could regard familial ties as being so trivial as to shaft his own brother.''

It isn't the same though,
a tbh sounds like more of "I hate Tories".

Trablism in the UK is part of the blinkered vision that just blames t'others for the sake of it.
If only Parliament could get beyond that.

 

[Scott_F]

Just read it.... interesting it was, frightening it was not. But then I am one of the (very) few people on here to think that a European army is actually a good idea, so probably biased.

But nowhere near as biased as BrexitCentral.

 

[markjay]

It isn't the same though,
a tbh sounds like more of "I hate Tories".

Trablism in the UK is part of the blinkered vision that just blames t'others for the sake of it.
If only Parliament could get beyond that.

There are 'genetic' voters on either side.

These are families where everyone in living memory has always voted for the same party. Regardless of current manifesto, current leader, etc.

In a way these people are irrelevant to the discussion, because everything that is being said and done by politicians in the public space in the run-up to a GE is actually aimed at those whose mind might be swayed. The 'genetic' voters are ignored.

 

[AltonAnt]

There are 'genetic' voters on either side.

These are families where everyone in living memory has always voted for the same party. Regardless of current manifesto, current leader, etc.

In a way these people are irrelevant to the discussion, because everything that is being said and done by politicians in the public space in the run-up to a GE is actually aimed at those whose mind might be swayed. The 'genetic' voters are ignored.

The Cambridge Analytica furore which was about misuse of data was pretty clever in only targeting those areas which were receptive to change e.g. those constituencies with frequent swings and small majorities.

 

[m80]

There are 'genetic' voters on either side.

Yep there are those are that are so set in their ways that they can't see anything but bad about the others.

We see in continually across the benches, and it isn't so rare that one side will later take the suggestion they argued against as a good policy.
We see it continually in interview and the likes of QT last night. So there isn't a debate it's just two blinkered tribes shouting and attempting to get the louder and last word, little or no intelligence involved. And they don't change their view or the view of the others they just get more angry and dig deeper for more irrelevant cr*p to spout.

Rabid dog politics.

In a way these people are irrelevant to the discussion

So really these people are more likely to be the ones who see more truth. Who more likely will ignore the cr*p and hear the better and more relevant argument.
So listening quietly on the side they are the ones who will decide, eventually.

Actually if we had many more of these types of Independants in the HoC maybe this would have been sorted long ago.
A Jury of maybe 200 of our peers perhaps, to replace those so open to Party corruption, the MP's.

 

[Scott_F]

So really these people are more likely to be the ones who see more truth. Who more likely will ignore the cr*p and hear the better and more relevant argument.
.

No. They are just people who have made up their minds regardless.

So listening quietly on the side they are the ones who will decide, eventually.

No. Their choice doesn't vary and so will only prevail in any given election if it happens to coincide with the majority of swing voters.

 

[Bellow]

There are 'genetic' voters on either side.

These are families where everyone in living memory has always voted for the same party. Regardless of current manifesto, current leader, etc.

In a way these people are irrelevant to the discussion, because everything that is being said and done by politicians in the public space in the run-up to a GE is actually aimed at those whose mind might be swayed. The 'genetic' voters are ignored.

Undoubtedly true prior to 1979 but not since.
Thatcher won over labour voters (who were only won back by Blair with the 'aspirational vibe' he carried) and that has since fragmented further with the disappearance of the 'work' that the workers once did who relied on Labour to represent their interests and rights. Labour lost a lot of voters in the transition from blue to white collar jobs, from working down a coal pit to working in a call centre, and the increased uptake of further education. Iraq sealed its fate - at least for some time.
The real tribality survived better with Conservative supporters for whom voting anything else would be infradig. That too is likely coming to an end now the Tories are anything but conservative. There are still enough though that are well enough insulated from the worst the Tories can inflict to keep on supporting them but increasingly their lurch to the right has enabled Farage to be a contender for their vote.
Things are so fragmented now, 'genetic' voting cannot be considered to be commonplace - not in the Johnson family for certain!

 

[markjay]

Undoubtedly true prior to 1979 but not since.
Thatcher won over labour voters (who were only won back by Blair with the 'aspirational vibe' he carried) and that has since fragmented further with the disappearance of the 'work' that the workers once did who relied on Labour to represent their interests and rights. Labour lost a lot of voters in the transition from blue to white collar jobs, from working down a coal pit to working in a call centre, and the increased uptake of further education. Iraq sealed its fate - at least for some time.
The real tribality survived better with Conservative supporters for whom voting anything else would be infradig. That too is likely coming to an end now the Tories are anything but conservative. There are still enough though that are well enough insulated from the worst the Tories can inflict to keep on supporting them but increasingly their lurch to the right has enabled Farage to be a contender for their vote.
Things are so fragmented now, 'genetic' voting cannot be considered to be commonplace - not in the Johnson family for certain!

I met a couple of 'generic' voters only this week...

One was from a Welsh family, he said they never vote Tory (especially not after what Thatcher did to the miners etc), the other was British-born of Pakistani decent.

I met a lot of people with lots of different opinions, but those two seemed 'hereditary' entrenched in their positions.

(I am obviously not suggesting that all Welsh or all Pakistani voters vote Labour etc, but I suspect that in these specific cases the heritage might be a contributing factor).

 

[Bellow]

I met a couple of 'generic' voters only this week...

One was from a Welsh family, he said they never vote Tory (especially not after what Thatcher did to the miners etc), the other was British-born of Pakistani decent.

I met a lot of people with lots of different opinions, but those two seemed 'hereditary' entrenched in their positions.

(I am obviously not suggesting that all Welsh or all Pakistani voters vote Labour etc, but I suspect that in these specific cases the heritage might be a contributing factor).

Another aspect is desertion as opposed to apostasy.
Some may not be able or willing make the shift from what their parents voted for to the alternative so may just not vote as no party is to their liking. The younger generation being less engaged with the voting process (a relatively new phenomenon?) may also break the familial loyalty to party. Whatever the reasons I think the old loyalties are trumped by the bigger realities eg, Brexit - as it crosses party lines like no other issue we have seen.

 

[m80]

No. They are just people who have made up their minds regardless.




No. Their choice doesn't vary and so will only prevail in any given election if it happens to coincide with the majority of swing voters.

A correctly stand corrected.
For some reason I thought the last paragraph of the post was referring to the undecided.

Please ignore my drivel, of that post anyway.

 

[Swotty]

"A young man who isn’t a socialist hasn’t got a heart; an old man who is a socialist hasn’t got a head."

(Attributed to Lloyd George)

"If a man is not a socialist by the time he is 20, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain."

(Churchill, but possibly cribbed from others)

 

[grober]

"A young man who isn’t a socialist hasn’t got a heart; an old man who is a socialist hasn’t got a head."
(Attributed to Lloyd George)
"If a man is not a socialist by the time he is 20, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain." (Churchill, but possibly cribbed from others)

"Grab them by the pussy" ( Donald J Trump )