The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[st13phil]

See Blackford stuck for words, for once

I always thought Salmond was a wind-bag promoted over his pay grade, but Blackford has raised wind-baggedness to an art form...




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[flowrider]

Opposition parties believe that Brexit is less important than keeping the Tory government dangling. They fear that if voters are given a choice then a large number of the existing MPs will be jobless. The present state of Parliament gives the minor opposition parties a much bigger influence than they rightly deserve.

 

[Swotty]

Opposition parties believe that Brexit is less important than keeping the Tory government dangling. They fear that if voters are given a choice then a large number of the existing MPs will be jobless. The present state of Parliament gives the minor opposition parties a much bigger influence than they rightly deserve.

That, plus the "quality" of MPs being deliberately dumbed down by first Blair and then Cameron, has resulted in many of them being appointed from a quota and being quite incapable of gaining employment outside the Westminster bubble ... and certainly nothing like the level of salary, perks and privileges. So add sheer greed to their fear.

 

[flowrider]

Look at Corbyn, he hadn't held any senior positions before becoming leader of the Labout party. In fact he voted many,many times against Labour policies and made himself a right pain in the ass.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Look at Corbyn, he hadn't held any senior positions before becoming leader of the Labout party. In fact he voted many,many times against Labour policies and made himself a right pain in the ass.

Some might see that as a good thing, what do you object to?

 

[flowrider]

Some might see that as a good thing, what do you object to?

As long as he stays out of No. 10 then nothing.

 

[DSM10000]

Nor were the Tories during the last General Election campaign when he out-performed the PM, defied all the polls and destroyed her Commons majority.

That joke isn't funny anymore
It's too close to home and it's too near the bone......




Nor do I yet there he is in Number 10.

Corbyn did not destroy May's majority, the Tories were so arrogant and complacent that they did not campaign and gifted seats to Labour.

Are you (very conveniently) forgetting the appalling performance of Labour in both local and European elections with such an exposed sitting party?

 

[Baldbloke]

Growing risk of no-deal in six days after Macron blocks Brexit extension — The Times and The Sunday Times

Never thought I’d ever having anything positive to say about Macron[emoji3]


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[Swotty]

Growing risk of no-deal in six days after Macron blocks Brexit extension — The Times and The Sunday Times

Never thought I’d ever having anything positive to say about Macron[emoji3]


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If only!

This is pure theatre. Actually it works far better for the EU for Boris to be kept in a rudderless and powerless parliament until 2022, so expect further extensions, albeit of varying lengths and guises, unless Boris can get his GE.

Macron is engaged in a powerplay with Merkel. His standing in the country is absolute cr*p and he needs to grandstand on the international stage. He is an énarque who came from nowhere to President of France in 18 months to support the ailing Merkel and see off the threat of Le Pen and the anti-EU sentiment in France. (Similar to what they have done in Italy).

Boris will do well to get a GE ..... he can change the law of the FTPA, but will need DUP support. He can introduce a "notwithstanding" bill ... both have the same effect and need a simple majority.

..... or, he can take us out next Thursday evening.

 

[m80]

.... or, he can take us out next Thursday evening.

I hope your confidence is well founded.

 

[Scott_F]

Corbyn did not destroy May's majority, the Tories were so arrogant and complacent that they did not campaign and gifted seats to Labour. o

Are you (very conveniently) forgetting the appalling performance of Labour in both local and European elections with such an exposed sitting party?

I'm not forgetting anything - I'm refuting your incorrect description of Corbyn as a "joke" leadership candidate with no support outside of the far left of the Labour party.

You are (very conveniently) forgetting that the Tories decided to base 2017's election campaign on personality rather than policies. Like you, they perceived Corbyn as a weak link and tried to target his apparent shortcomings whilst showcasing May's supposed strengths. Unfortunately, it quickly became apparent to all that the PM was utterly wooden and unable to engage with the people in the street who she expected to vote for her whilst Corbyn was very comfortable meeting the people, illustrated a great deal of personal popularity and generated what the media dubbed a "Corbyn factor" as he garnered support and confounded the polls.

To dismiss this unexpected success and solely blame the Tories for the loss of their majority shows that you either don't understand what happened or can't bring yourself to acknowledge Corbyn's effectiveness as a campaigner.

And despite your obvious dislike for him, you also need to bear in mind that during the 2017 election campaign and since, Labour have enjoyed an upswell of support among young voters. Many of them are saddled with student debt, facing mediocre employment prospects, saddled with crippling rents and have no prospect of ever owning their own home. They are obviously a very different demographic to you with very different priorities but they are the future.

 

[DSM10000]

I'm not forgetting anything - I'm refuting your incorrect description of Corbyn as a "joke" leadership candidate with no support outside of the far left of the Labour party.

You are (very conveniently) forgetting that the Tories decided to base 2017's election campaign on personality rather than policies. Like you, they perceived Corbyn as a weak link and tried to target his apparent shortcomings whilst showcasing May's supposed strengths. Unfortunately, it quickly became apparent to all that the PM was utterly wooden and unable to engage with the people in the street who she expected to vote for her whilst Corbyn was very comfortable meeting the people, illustrated a great deal of personal popularity and generated what the media dubbed a "Corbyn factor" as he garnered support and confounded the polls.

To dismiss this unexpected success and solely blame the Tories for the loss of their majority shows that you either don't understand what happened or can't bring yourself to acknowledge Corbyn's effectiveness as a campaigner.

And despite your obvious dislike for him, you also need to bear in mind that during the 2017 election campaign and since, Labour have enjoyed an upswell of support among young voters. Many of them are saddled with student debt, facing mediocre employment prospects, saddled with crippling rents and have no prospect of ever owning their own home. They are obviously a very different demographic to you with very different priorities but they are the future.

I am forgetting nothing about the 2017 elections, I clearly blamed the Tories for arrogance and lack of ambition so why are you repeating my comments in an attempt to counter my argument?

Where is this supposed success for Labour under Corbyn?Tthey have had some of the worst results for an opposition in history.The majority of Labour MP's do not support or want Corbyn as leader and members of his own shadow cabinet openly disagree with him

Of course young voters will support him, he openly tried to bribe them by offering to revoke tuition fees, at that age they are quite easily swayed because they do not have the experience to look ahead in life and promising something that directly benefits them and provides instant gratification will always attract support.

Let us not forget though that this "promise" re tuition fees has now quietly slipped off the radar because, like most of their promises it cannot be afforded without excessive borrowing.

As for my demographic and priorities, ask rather than guess!

I want a nation that is successful economically, one that can trade on fair terms with everyone, a country that is open, inclusive, welcoming and able to attract the talents of people from everywhere as well as providing world class education both academic and vocational.

 

[Scott_F]

I am forgetting nothing about the 2017 elections, I clearly blamed the Tories for arrogance and lack of ambition so why are you repeating my comments in an attempt to counter my argument?

I'm pointing out that your assessment is both simplistic and inaccurate. Blaming Tory shortcomings is only part of the picture and you are unwilling or unable to see that Corbyn's Labour had a big say in the loss of the Tory majority. A 10% upswing and nearly 13m votes were not irrelevant and are not the hallmarks of a "joke" leader.

Where is this supposed success for Labour under Corbyn?Tthey have had some of the worst results for an opposition in history.

The ultimate political test is a General Election. Corbyn has led Labour in one of these where he and his party out-performed the polls and greatly over-achieved.

The majority of Labour MP's do not support or want Corbyn as leader and members of his own shadow cabinet openly disagree with him.

Exactly the same can be said of Johnson yet you offer no criticism.

Of course young voters will support him, he openly tried to bribe them by offering to revoke tuition fees, at that age they are quite easily swayed because they do not have the experience to look ahead in life and promising something that directly benefits them and provides instant gratification will always attract support?.

So we can now add patronising to simplistic. And since you are obviously concerned about politicians seeking to bribe the electorate you will doubtless be deeply troubled at the cheap council house sales, cut-price privatisations and tax cuts for the better off funded by cuts to welfare and public services that have been at the heart of successive Tory administrations for over 30 years. Yet strangely, you have again offered no criticism.

Let us not forget though that this "promise" re tuition fees has now quietly slipped off the radar because, like most of their promises it cannot be afforded without excessive borrowing.

As far as I was aware this remains a Labour commitment. Can you validate that statement ?

As for my demographic and priorities, ask rather than guess!

No guesswork required. You advertise it constantly in your posts.

I want a nation that is successful economically, one that can trade on fair terms with everyone, a country that is open, inclusive, welcoming and able to attract the talents of people from everywhere as well as providing world class education both academic and vocational.

Straight out of Vote Leave's description of their post-Brexit utopia and yet it summarises all of the things that those driving the populist and divisive Leave agenda are undermining and destroying.

 

[DSM10000]

You cannot hold any sort of balanced intellectual debate can you?

In terms of tuition fees:

Just try a little searching............., so either a change of plan you denied or another example of Labour not being able to stick to anything?

Labour retracts tuition fees pledge as Angela Rayner says there are 'no plans' to write-off student debt

You also make assumptions about people based on your own obvious political prejudice, you deny or ignore facts that do not fit your own views, you twist and turn with your "arguments" such as Labour's "success"and you see Corbyn as someone who cannot be challenged in any way and try to then tell me I am biased when I have often criticised other parties including the government.

Corbyn is unfit both intellectually and morally to be PM, he is only there as an easily manipulated mouthpiece for the ultra left and the Unions and because he believes his own publicity circus. The only answer he and Labour has to the economy is to tax those he sees as wealthy and to borrow billions to try to bribe the gullible (other governments clearly do the same, see? balance!), McDonald et al are rabidly wanting to return Water ,Rail etc back to public ownership where, (if you remember or would / could ever admit), there was chronic mismanagement and years of zero investment. Yes some people have made a lot of money out of these areas but there has also been significant investment in the infrastructure.

The Tories for all of their faults (and there are many of those, see? balance once more, you might yet get the hang of this) have , in the latest Queens speech (passed by Parliamentary vote) a fairly well balanced and costed plan that is not based on either greed or envy as Labour are.

Is it perfect? Of course not but it is a pragmatic programme that is more inclusive for the nation than previous propositions.

The Labour party have moved far too far to the left and you must understand that Corbyn only has real support in the Metropolitan areas whereas in the Labour heartlands he is not popular or trusted.

We are a centrist nation when it comes to politics hence Tony Blair gaining and holding power for 10 years. Radical does not sit well with the British people (which is why the Li Dems often do well in times like these)

If Kier Starmer or similar were Labour leader then they would be a more significant opposition in all senses.

Anyway, I have tired now of your inability to form a cogent, intelligent or balanced response. I unblocked you as some of your comments were thought provoking but now you just go for provocation without substance so post away with your vitriol and bias, I will save my bandwidth.

 

[Swotty]

In an attempt to inject a little humour into the debate ...... Joanna Cherry has said the England 19 - 7 win of over the All Blacks was divisive, purely advisory and that she is asking the Scottish Court to cancel it and order a people's rematch.

 

[Bellow]

Instead of pointing the finger at anyone and everyone else, why not take a moment to consider where we are ?

Without blaming Parliament, the opposition, Remain or next door's cat, which part of the process that you have seen over the past 3.5 years has matched expectations ? From pledges over NHS funding to talk of easy exit negotiations in which we held all the trump cards, which parts accurately reflect the promises that Leave made when they were campaigning for votes ?

I'm afraid the time has come for some personal responsibility.[/QUOTE]

Not a chance. Not even the man at the heart of this will!

 

[geraldrobins]

In an attempt to inject a little humour into the debate ...... Joanna Cherry has said the England 19 - 7 win of over the All Blacks was divisive, purely advisory and that she is asking the Scottish Court to cancel it and order a people's rematch.

England won on the day and played better. They wont necessarily win in 3 years time.

 

[Swotty]

England won on the day and played better. They wont necessarily win in 3 years time.

Understand the sentiment, but the final is next week.

Hopefully around 30 hours after we leave the EU.

 

[geraldrobins]

Understand the sentiment, but the final is next week.

Hopefully around 30 hours after we leave the EU.

I'm optimistic about next Saturday which is hopefully something we can all agree on.

 

[Swotty]

I'm optimistic about next Saturday which is hopefully something we can all agree on.

Yep, I'll settle for that ... probably a better chance than Thursday!