The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[artyman]

So lower the voting age to 16, they can stand as MP's, well they may fit in well with the childish behaviour seen recently!

 

[Scott_F]

More seriously, I for one have never claimed that the last Labour government was responsible for the financial meltdown in 2008. However, I do hold Broon responsible for (amongst other things):
The disastrous PFI scheme that has condemned organisations such as the NHS to overpay for facilities and services for decades to come and with huge interest bills to fund to boot

Labour should have gone nowhere near PFI and we'll all be paying for it for decades to come.

However, the idea was spawned by the Conservatives under John Major and Labour wouldn't have run with it if the Tories hadn't created it.

 

[Scott_F]

Apparently Trump just phoned into Farages radio show to say how fantastic it would be if BoJo and Farage tag teamed.

If Trump is cheerleadering something, you can be pretty sure it's an awful idea.
Donald Trump weighs in on UK election backing Boris Johnson - CNN

Laura Kuenssburg said as much in a report on BBC news - Labour view Trump's endorsement of Johnson as quite a boost to their own campaign.

 

[st13phil]

However, the idea was spawned by the Conservatives under John Major and Labour wouldn't have run with it if the Tories hadn't created it.

For someone who actually can make interesting posts, you really do plumb the depths at times.

And if Karl Benz hadn't invented the motor car, my mate wouldn't have been run over by one last week

 

[geraldrobins]

I'll offer you a deal: stop claiming the Tories are responsible for all ills you perceive and...

More seriously, I for one have never claimed that the last Labour government was responsible for the financial meltdown in 2008. However, I do hold Broon responsible for (amongst other things):

• The sell-off of gold reserves at the lowest price imaginable
• The cynical tax raid on pensions that will continue to impoverish many millions for many years
• The disastrous PFI scheme that has condemned organisations such as the NHS to overpay for facilities and services for decades to come and with huge interest bills to fund to boot

I also accept a degree of personal responsibility because I did actually vote Labour.

It's popular in some quarters to forget that in 2008 the UK (and most of the world) was in a parlous financial position. I commented at the time to my wife and to friends that whoever won the UK election was grabbing hold of the sticky end of a very sh*tty stick, and would be saddled with taking responsibility for some very unpopular decisions. I was right. Did I support Osborne's austerity? Only in part, as I was convinced that much of it was more about ideology than utility, but it would have been ludicrous to claim that the solution to the massive debt pile would have been to either do nothing or spend more indiscriminately. I am, for example, absolutely convinced that Osborne was wrong to target infrastructure spending as I think that was a huge missed opportunity to stimulate real economic activity at little long-term cost. But I wasn't Chancellor, and he was.

So, in summary there are two statements that are equally incorrect and absurd:

• The last Labour Government is responsible for all the UK's ills
• The last Tory Government is responsible for all the UK's ills

Next?

Is there anything to substantiate that PFI was a disaster in the majority of schemes?

 

[Scott_F]

For someone who actually can make interesting posts, you really do plumb the depths at times.

And if Karl Benz hadn't invented the motor car, my mate wouldn't have been run over by one last week

And for someone who can actually make interesting posts you really can be a patronising individual at times.

But nonetheless, why not also condemn Labour for 13 years of council house sales under Right To Buy ? They should have put an immediate end to it yet decided it was a vote winner instead. And like PFI, they wouldn't have been able to pick it up and run with it had the Tories not created the beast so your desire to exclusively blame Labour shows a rather selective recollection of the wider picture and an apparent desire to ignore the origins of the scheme.

It was the Conservatives who let the PFI genie out of the bottle.

 

[Dryce]

And for someone who can actually make interesting posts you really can be a patronising individual at times.

Classic. You make a patronising response that accuses somebody of being patronising!

 

[Scott_F]

Classic. You make a patronising response that accuses somebody of being patronising!

I'm not patronising.

I'm sarcastic.

 

[DSM10000]

Deluded ..............

 

[Scott_F]

Blocked.........?

 

[flowrider]

I am getting a bit sick of your bait and switch tactics. If you are going to query or contradict me then please read what I say before commenting and don't mislead or misquote.

It is a moot point. 16 year olds do not have a vote - as you said above if they do then that is a different matter, and as I said above when it is seriously discussed then that is the time for debate. However, i do agree that it would be done for political gain as happened on the last Scottish devolution referendum.
I actual said "the majority of those over 16 and under 18 that I assume you are referring to do not commit crime." You erased the earlier part of my comment implying that I said only the words you have written.

As to your comment "Tell that to some of the stabbing victims and scooter raiders." I think that my comment about responsibility is pretty evident and I would throw the book at them and treat them as adults. The law needs changing. Anyone carrying offensive weapons should be prosecuted for intent to harm at the very least. The excuse that they are carried for defense implies that they would use them at some time and it therefore becomes premeditated.

Whoa........Chill man. I misread your post. Apologies

I dont use "bait and switch tactics" whatever they are. You need to chill out.

 

[flowrider]

I didn't. I was responding to a post by st13phil.

Post #13170 was a quote of my previous post, I guess you quoted me by mistake.

 

[AMGeed]

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Blocked.........?

Platinum.

 

[DetailerDan]

So lower the voting age to 16, they can stand as MP's, well they may fit in well with the childish behaviour seen recently!

Lowering the age to 16 is a joke! !! Not old enough to legally drink but can vote, don't get me going on all this Brexit bolloxs

 

[Harrythedog]

Lowering the age to 16 is a joke! !! Not old enough to legally drink but can vote, don't get me going on all this Brexit bolloxs

Don’t worry most of them will have their heads stuck into some puerile video game to notice they have the right to vote

 

[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

The whole "age that you can do things at" needs to be entirely reviewed generally in the UK, and I don't think a snap GE is the time to be doing that.

To use your example 16 isn't considered old enough to buy a sparkler, and yet is old enough to allow them to gamble every single penny they have in any corner sweetie shop on the national lottery to potentially win £10s Millions. One assumes the former is protecting them for their own safety, but where there is a kick-back to the government, suddenly they are responsible enough to not need protection from the "blue touchpaper" of problem gambling.

The government have been considering raising the age of buying lottery tickets to 18 in 2020. Labour wanted the age raised immediately. Since 18 is now the age that kids can leave school ( except for apprenticeships or further education ) one must assume they are not deemed old/mature enough to vote since they obviously aren't able to choose to work for a living.

 

[markjay]

Is there anything to substantiate that PFI was a disaster in the majority of schemes?

There's no need to do that. Not any more. We live in the Post-Science Age where facts are made-up on the go, and everything that is being said is spin, spin, spin.

 

[Bellow]

I didn't say that either so why did you bring it up quoting my post?

Once again. That was a response to post # 13178 by st13phil - not post # 13170 as you persist in erroneously claiming.

 

[Scott_F]

There's no need to do that. Not any more. We live in the Post-Science Age where facts are made-up on the go, and everything that is being said is spin, spin, spin.

So criticism of PFI comprises made-up facts and spin ?

Well that's a view. A strange view, but a view nonetheless.