Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Not the best source but a source nonetheless - No 10 fishing offer to EU raises hopes of Brexit deal before Christmas

TLDR - According to EU sources, the British demand for a 60% reduction in the catch by value in British waters had been reduced to 35%, far closer to the 25% reduction that Frost’s EU counterpart, Michel Barnier, had said he would be prepared to accept. 5 year phase in....

.... Where the quota share is reduced, an independent arbitration panel will deduce the cost and allow either side to levy tariffs on goods.

Will BoJo get away with that if the report is accurate and it's not the EU sabre rattling? I'd imagine some of the ERG heads are spinning at the mere thought of it.
 
I doubt it. But more information would be needed as to what tariffs, how soon, how much, how long and adjudicated by whom? Even when those questions are answered it still looks like a massive BoJo U turn.
 
Great opinion piece by Claire Fox that chimes with my view, expressed on the Covid thread, that our government is following a quasi-religious belief in a single doctrine rather than engaging in open debate on how we best move forward.

"Stuck on a treadmill, our politicians are only hearing opinions from a limited sphere of interest and expertise. More often than not they miss the big picture, oblivious to the consequences of the policies they impose. If you only ever talk to SAGE scientists, or mistake opinion polling and media headlines for the mood of the public, you’re doomed to mess up."

 
Great opinion piece by Claire Fox that chimes with my view, expressed on the Covid thread, that our government is following a quasi-religious belief in a single doctrine rather than engaging in open debate on how we best move forward.

I particular liked these points.

Who could have predicted that a dramatic press conference designed for a domestic audience that ratcheted up fear about a new variant and more infectious strain of the virus allegedly rampant in the UK, would lead to an international travel blockade? Just about anyone from the political world - outside the rarefied committee rooms filled with modellers and myriad scientists with little experience of international relations. These unintended consequences of rash action, that have now created a brand new crisis, could well have been anticipated and averted if parliament had been recalled.

Who could have predicted that thousands would flock to railway stations to escape tier-4 madness having been given only a few hours notice of draconian new rules on family gatherings? Almost anyone with an ounce of common sense.

 
As far as I can see, the negotiations between the EU and the UK are 95% sorted, the main sticking points are territorial waters (i.e. fishing) and the level playing field. The latter I believe, refers to the UK investing in UK manufacturers to make them more competitive, if this is correct, why were the French allowed to invest 8 billion euros in their car manufacturers, stated as a loan?
 
As far as I can see, the negotiations between the EU and the UK are 95% sorted, the main sticking points are territorial waters (i.e. fishing) and the level playing field. The latter I believe, refers to the UK investing in UK manufacturers to make them more competitive, if this is correct, why were the French allowed to invest 8 billion euros in their car manufacturers, stated as a loan?
And to bail out Airbus.
 
Anyone know when the next EU deadline is? Again. They've already bypassed EP which means they were not fit for purpose in the first place.
 
I am sickened by the reports that Boris has proposed a 35% reduction in quota and a five year transition for fishing And independent arbitration of future quota deals with sanctions.

Barnier has rejected this as unacceptable. They want even more.

Time for us to walk away. Lets go WTO.
 
Nothing less than total control of our waters with quotas or concessions given at our discretion. Anything less will be in perpetuity and likely to cause future problems

That would be certainly be the case if we left under WTO rules.

However, the essence of a deal - any deal - is that you give some and get some.

You may well argue that we are giving too much and getting too little, and that's fine. And, if we say that under no circumstances are we willing to give anything, then we're simply saying that we're not interested in a deal - which is also fine.

However, saying that we want a deal where are are not obliged to give anything is somewhat of an oxymoron, I would have thought?
 
However, saying that we want a deal where are are not obliged to give anything is somewhat of an oxymoron, I would have thought?

It's down to balance.

However this negotiation is skewed because of intrusion into areas of sovereignty and supremacy of jurisdiction.

This is a reason that a no-deal may well have been the UK's best strategy from the outset - as it would reset thinking and allow a build up of a less tangled mutually balanced deal.
 
That would be certainly be the case if we left under WTO rules.

However, the essence of a deal - any deal - is that you give some and get some.

You may well argue that we are giving too much and getting too little, and that's fine. And, if we say that under no circumstances are we willing to give anything, then we're simply saying that we're not interested in a deal - which is also fine.

However, saying that we want a deal where are are not obliged to give anything is somewhat of an oxymoron, I would have thought?
You can’t do a deal by giving away sovereignty forever. You wouldn’t sign a deal to buy a house if you only owned 99% of it that 1% would have you by the short and curlys sine die.
The UK have offered quotas etc but the EU, very much like yourself I think, refuse to accept total sovereignty on our waters.
Sovereignty is not up for grabs
 
We should be putting a system in place now whereby anyone can apply for a license to fish in UK waters and licenses are granted by the UK for a period of say 3 years. We don't have the industry to fish all our waters but over a period of time this could be developed. If such a system existed the issue of fishing should go away, shouldn't it.
 
We should be putting a system in place now whereby anyone can apply for a license to fish in UK waters and licenses are granted by the UK for a period of say 3 years. We don't have the industry to fish all our waters but over a period of time this could be developed. If such a system existed the issue of fishing should go away, shouldn't it.
You'd think so however the EU want access in perpetuity
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nat
You can’t do a deal by giving away sovereignty forever. You wouldn’t sign a deal to buy a house if you only owned 99% of it that 1% would have you by the short and curlys sine die.
The UK have offered quotas etc but the EU, very much like yourself I think, refuse to accept total sovereignty on our waters.
Sovereignty is not up for grabs

The way I see it, Sovereignty means that you decide what you wish to give and what you don't.

French trawlers sailing uninvited in British waters is a breach of our Sovereignty, clearly

But French trawlers fishing in British waters with our permission, is not.

As for the 'forever'... this should read 'for as long as the current trade deal hasn't been revoked or amended'. That's what Sovereignty means - we enter a deal willingly, and we can decide to exit it if we believe that leaving is in our best interests. Just as we've done with the EU.

As for mentioning 'Sovereignty' in this context, I personally believe it's a political red herring, aimed at obscuring the Government's failing to negotiate a deal.

It's not a 'Sovereignty' issue if, as part of a trade deal, you allow another nation access to your territory. Calling it that, stirs-up people's emotions, which is something politicians often do when common sense doesn't support their argument.
 
You'd think so however the EU want access in perpetuity

Tony is quite respected by most for his more impartial commentating than others. More often than not he gets things right too.

I see the new deadline is now Christmas Eve 🤣

The big question is will BoJo throw it away and give the EU everything they ask for? If he does then he'll be toast and rightfully so to.

IMO and at this stage it has to be WTO from 1/1/21.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom