The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[Petrol Pete]

Where ever Scotland go Wales are looking to follow. While they do bleat on about independence they do it more quietly, watching Scotland for the way to present it.
BJ obstructing Scotland in such desires also prevents Wales becoming more complicated.

I consider N.I to be another subject. The eu followed by Brexit seems to be the cause for renewed anger there.

The Welsh 'bleat' about independence .. see what you did there

 

[Petrol Pete]

I might be the only one thinking that the EU might take an independent Scotland into their gang - no matter how ruinous it might be in the long run - just to fruck England around.

They are that narrow minded and shallow.

 

[Dryce]

I‘ve copied this and have no idea whether are not the claims are true. However if they are it doesn’t look good for the people of Scotland if they’re not true it would seem Project Fear Mk2 has began

Well it's not a very high quality list. As an example ....

Tourism as an example - huge number of tourists come from outside the UK. There are plenty of people in England who have never been to Scotland.

The situation with defence and civil service jobs is mixed. There are a whole load of higher echelon jobs that don't exist in the regions of the UK and are focused on the South East - any part of the UK going independent would in effect create these jobs and the associated ecosystems around its new capital.

Free prescriptions and free higher education are not the biggest financial issues - free prescriptions aren/'t free but are a bidgeting decision and free high eduaction used to be 'a thing' across the UK. Both of these are independent of indepemndence.

The real risk for an independent Scotland is less tangible - that is that instead of being part of a G7 nation it becomes a peripheral backwater tinpot state on the edge of Europe - beholden to the UK and EU - and subject to political plays by others.

Guess what - that was what Scotland was before the Union. A bit of a backwater dump with some well off people in the central belt and north east - and a bunch of tribes/clans in the north west. Subject to influence from other 'great states'.

After 1707 Scotland flourished. Now that was in part the union but also in combination with the rise of Britain and the march of developments in agriculture, industry, technology, and trade that coincided with it. In the 1700s Scotland started to create its modern place in the world. Builders, thinkers, engineers, soldiers, economists.

 

[markjay]

Say goodbye to the millions received from the Barnett formula.

I think you will find most political arguments are in fact reverse-engineered.

They are an ideology looking for justification, rather than being a conclusion reached from looking at the facts.

The financial arguments are often brought-up to support the ideology, but dropped very quickly when they don't fit.

This is true for almost everything political, not just Scottish Independence.

So those who want to break away from the UK at all cost, just want to break away. It's ideological.

The financial arguments are only relevant to them if they happen to support the cause.

 

[C240Sport97]

Is Welsh independence a serious possibility?

they voted Brexit, like England.

plus they know what's good for them ..

 

[C240Sport97]

The "hidden" costs of lockdown. Survey of teachers.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

Is Welsh independence a serious possibility?

they voted Brexit, like England.

plus they know what's good for them ..

I can't speak for all of Wales but I think not.

There are a few of the older generation who wish for independence but they are very much in the minority, the Welsh Parliament is seen by most as an unnecessary level of government. I suppose that they might have played a part when we were part of the EU and there were some funding opportunities up for grabs.

 

[ChipChop]

I might be the only one thinking that the EU might take an independent Scotland into their gang - no matter how ruinous it might be in the long run - just to fruck England around.

They are that narrow minded and shallow.

And when Scotland is an "independent" new EU member state they can pull a Greece on them by lending Scotland EU/IMF money they can never repay and then foreclose.

 

[190]

..... how about benefitting from the Brexit experience by doing the withdrawal agreement first? That would be interesting

An excellent idea, the Scottish people should know exactly what they are voting for. It would expose the financial disaster in store for an independent Scotland which the SNP conveniently ignore and more over, it would do so before the referendum vote. If Brexit is anything to go by a withdrawal agreement could take years to complete which kicks the problem nicely down the road.

 

[Swotty]

I suspect many Scots believe that a reduction in wealth is a price worth paying for freedom.

As an Englishman, when I voted to leave the EU i was resigned to the possibility that my wealth may take a hit but i was happy to accept that in exchange for regaining control over our own affairs.

So far, i haven’t noticed any appreciable to my personal wealth.

Excellent point!

 

[Dryce]

If Brexit is anything to go by a withdrawal agreement could take years to complete which kicks the problem nicely down the road.

Brexit involved a great deal of foot dragging and mixed signalling by the UK parliament of the day.

If the UK had been governed by a party and leadership that was focused on leaving the EU then things would have been expedited more clearly.

If you have Scoland being dominated by those advocating independence then they would also presumably expedite it rather more effctively than Brexit.

(Subject to a completely different reality check on the actual impact and consequences - which would likely be far greater on the fiscal and political security of Scotland compared with the impact of the UK's departure from the EU).

The Indyref 2014 tended to avoid the reality.

 

[PhantomF4]

Brexit involved a great deal of foot dragging and mixed signalling by the UK parliament of the day.

If the UK had been governed by a party and leadership that was focused on leaving the EU then things would have been expedited more clearly.

If you have Scoland being dominated by those advocating independence then they would also presumably expedite it rather more effctively than Brexit.

(Subject to a completely different reality check on the actual impact and consequences - which would likely be far greater on the fiscal and political security of Scotland compared with the impact of the UK's departure from the EU).

The Indyref 2014 tended to avoid the reality.

All very true.

There are some (I’ve actually met a few) who swallowed the more outspoken SNP MSPs waffle about Scotland getting its share of the U.K’s mythical pension pot and being able to simply walk away from any obligations to the National debt.

Mind you, time and again the Scottish Executive have proved that Finance Secretaries who actually have experience in finance are very hard to find within the ranks of the SNP and after all, as one of them famously said “who needs a currency when everyone now uses plastic “?

 

[m80]

Greece was attractive as a nice buffer between Russia and later the Middle East.
It also offers advantage regarding access / restriction of the Black Sea (there's a big fleet in there.)
Scotland offers the eu no advantage militarily or immigrationwise, aside from Scotland willing to invite more immigration to their lesser populated areas.

Really the only attraction to the eu is to cause England+ grief. But as time goes on that will become much less of an eu priority, unless they believe claims on the gas / oil reserves can be realised.

 

[GeeJayW]

Greece was attractive as a nice buffer between Russia and later the Middle East.
It also offers advantage regarding access / restriction of the Black Sea (there's a big fleet in there.)
Scotland offers the eu no advantage militarily or immigrationwise, aside from Scotland willing to invite more immigration to their lesser populated areas.

Really the only attraction to the eu is to cause England+ grief. But as time goes on that will become much less of an eu priority, unless they believe claims on the gas / oil reserves can be realised.

For sure, if the EU can find a way to ‘weaponise’ an independent Scotland so as to cause irritation to rUK, they will be all over it.

 

[Swotty]

Greece was attractive as a nice buffer between Russia and later the Middle East.
It also offers advantage regarding access / restriction of the Black Sea (there's a big fleet in there.)
Scotland offers the eu no advantage militarily or immigrationwise, aside from Scotland willing to invite more immigration to their lesser populated areas.

Really the only attraction to the eu is to cause England+ grief. But as time goes on that will become much less of an eu priority, unless they believe claims on the gas / oil reserves can be realised.

The Chinese have owned the Piraeus since around 2009 on a 35 year agreement.

 

[C240Sport97]

 

[markjay]

Amazingly, it seems that the BBC didn't realise that she's not a medical doctor:

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[Harrythedog]

Amazingly, it seems that the BBC didn't realise that she's not a medical doctor:

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As long as her views are negative she’d have satisfied BBC criteria

 

[st13phil]

Amazingly, it seems that the BBC didn't realise that she's not a medical doctor:

25+ years ago I would have agreed that it was an amazing display of ignorance by the BBC. Today, I wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow as their agenda-based “reporting” has become the depressing norm.

 

[ChipChop]

As long as her views are negative she’d have satisfied BBC criteria

What a good actress. Surprised the BBC did not provide her with a white coat to complete the effect.

Number of people currently in hospital due to Covid-19 tells a very different story.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Hospitalizations - Statistics and Research