The UK Politics & Brexit Thread

[Deleted96908]

This is what's called a false equivalence.

The bigger issue for me is that most exchanges here and online in general, are had with little if any moral equivalence, with both sides expecting only that the other side gives in, and, or walks away. Then we have the strawmen arguments and cheap seat cheap shots. Little wonder in my view then that this thread just goes round and round in circles, same arguments, same counter arguments and absolutely no movement one way or the other.

Now had Obama said "I told David Cameron how he should campaign to remain and he didn't listen to me, but this political opponent will make a great Prime Minister" I could see your point.

Wasn't it Cameron who requested the Obama Brexit intervention? I seem to recall a Cameron aide making that claim this week.

 

[AltonAnt]

We are already seeing the ‘benefits’ of the trade deals with China. Chinese workers are already looking for better pay and conditions so eventually it will not be as cost-effective for western companies to manufacture there and somewhere else will take over.

Trump is just trying to implement the policies he was elected for. As much as I don’t like him, I can’t fault him for that

 

[markjay]

We are already seeing the ‘benefits’ of the trade deals with China. Chinese workers are already looking for better pay and conditions so eventually it will not be as cost-effective for western companies to manufacture there and somewhere else will take over.

Trump is just trying to implement the policies he was elected for. As much as I don’t like him, I can’t fault him for that

In the eighties and nineties everyone manufactured electronics in Taiwan (ROC). Then Taiwan was abandoned and everyone move their production to China (PRC).

 

[alabbasi]

We are already seeing the ‘benefits’ of the trade deals with China. Chinese workers are already looking for better pay and conditions so eventually it will not be as cost-effective for western companies to manufacture there and somewhere else will take over.

Interesting, in every supply chain class that I took , it was raised as a concern that when China becomes a consumer economy. Their demand would outstrip that of everybody. IIRC , TPP was the mitigation plan that would establish trade with these smaller counties.

 

[WDB124066]

Here you go Chris, for the people who have the guts and intelligence to listen, listen carefully...

FWIW I haven't voted right since Rob Muldoon ran and was Waring'd - in fact we all were.

Now, how are your listening skills.... @9:10

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Could not agree more, what does Labour stand for, a federation of minority entitled people and that's it. No more work, have you noticed...?

And for anybody suffering from a little bit of mental illness at the moment may I suggest you take a long hard listen to Jordan Peterson, a Professor of Psychology - in the first world. And, if things don't get better for you, go see your GP....

 

[AltonAnt]

Here you go Chris, for the people who have the guts and intelligence to listen, listen carefully...

You don't need guts or intelligence to see Peterson is just another mouthpeice of the 'alt-right'

 

[WDB124066]

He isn't and you ought to be careful about deformation of character. Your cry is simply another line from the ALT LEFT song sheet, agree with me or you are alt right = mental illness right there.

He is a scientist NOT a politician, otherwise he would be removed from his professorship - wouldn't he?

Now put the song sheet away.

↑
Here you go Chris, for the people who have the guts and intelligence to listen, listen carefully...
You don't need guts or intelligence to see Peterson is just another mouthpeice of the 'alt-right'

 

[WDB124066]

Or, and instead of voting for the people on the ballot paper how about you vote only for the person you want as your MP, and if that person isn't there how about you don't tick any box on the ballot paper. The vacant ballot paper then carries through to empty seats in the house should the vacant ballot papers win the seat.
THEN, you, the silent majority gets to vote on each and every decision in Parliament via your fav electronic medium = so easy. If we are going to have democracy let's fing well have it and see how long these ill people last....

Or is it just business as usual and well play tiddlywinks with our Country...? Mmmmmm?

 

[markjay]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/shami-chakrabarti-sajid-javid-death-penalty_uk_5b559c17e4b0de86f48e97e8/

Should this decision have been debated in Parliament? Or at least made public at an earlier time?

 

[Scott_F]

Or, and instead of voting for the people on the ballot paper how about you vote only for the person you want as your MP, and if that person isn't there how about you don't tick any box on the ballot paper. The vacant ballot paper then carries through to empty seats in the house should the vacant ballot papers win the seat.
THEN, you, the silent majority gets to vote on each and every decision in Parliament via your fav electronic medium = so easy. If we are going to have democracy let's fing well have it and see how long these ill people last....

Or is it just business as usual and well play tiddlywinks with our Country...? Mmmmmm?

I'm sorry to have to ask but what on earth are you talking about ?

 

[grober]

My immediate impression of Jordan Peterson was "very manicured" in thought and appearance. Like many self help gurus/ religious philosophers/ politicians he asserts his world view which majors on introspection as might be expected from a comfortable academic living in western society. He has some interesting things to say but again the notion of free will is essentially a luxury of thought not currently available to a large section of the worlds population. The concept of individual determinism is fine in theory but often falls down in practice as people's destiny is often determined by forces beyond their control. It's something that western societies political structures constantly struggle with and frequently promise they have the answer to , but it would appear are often failing to deliver. They inevitably fall back on well worn concepts related to nationality, cultural identity , tribalism and political affiliation as answers to problems that are fundamentally more mundane and more importantly, often not governed by such concepts.

 

[WDB124066]

Correct grober, he is not there to fix the third world, just stop the first world from believing it isn't severely [and negatively] affected by it - to the point of destruction. But then that is exactly what the TLVF brigade is ALL about. Rip society as we know it clean apart.

Refer to my earlier posts on Prince Charles and Transylvania for what you [may be] seek/ing, and that is we will help you in your own land, all you have to do is ASK.

And FWIW he isn't self help guru he is reality, clarity, scientific fact in a very very mixed up brainwashed world.

 

[st13phil]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/shami-chakrabarti-sajid-javid-death-penalty_uk_5b559c17e4b0de86f48e97e8/

Should this decision have been debated in Parliament? Or at least made public at an earlier time?

The moral dilemma that the terrorists know they create, and don't they just love the West's public hand-wringing over things such as this?

Whether it should have been debated in Parliament is moot. I guess it comes down to whether or not it is within the scope of the Executive to make a decision on it. And I'm not sure that making it public sooner would have done anything but increase the volume of the polarised "debate".

While I'm minded to agree with James Foley's mother, who said (about them being subject to the death penalty), "I am very against that. I think that would just make them martyrs in their twisted ideology", I honestly don't know what the right answer is on this one.

 

[WDB124066]

Well done Scott, perfect response.

I'm sorry, I can't see the article MJ....

 

[WDB124066]

Now grober, may I ask what YOU have done in the third world to make THEIR life better, then I may share with you what I have done since 2008, and invite others to participate.

I mean this kindly and also my next point, and that is; you didn't see Randall Carlson too accurately either, did you, initially....

 

[AltonAnt]

He isn't and you ought to be careful about deformation of character. Your cry is simply another line from the ALT LEFT song sheet, agree with me or you are alt right = mental illness right there.

He is a scientist NOT a politician, otherwise he would be removed from his professorship - wouldn't he?

Now put the song sheet away.

You might want to heed your own advice there and also tread extremely carefully with the implications.
I have no concerns regarding 'deforming' his character if that is a thing or defaming him as it has been widely reported and remains in the public domain.
Because a person says they are not something doesn't make it so.

 

[WDB124066]

Consult Jordan Peterson and he will explain the illness very accurately. Suggest you do this sooner rather than later, and seek cross reference.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

While I'm minded to agree with James Foley's mother, who said (about them being subject to the death penalty), "I am very against that. I think that would just make them martyrs in their twisted ideology", I honestly don't know what the right answer is on this one.

That’s the same reason I’d be wary of having them bumped off - it’s what they want.

Also worth noting how inflamed the likes of Chakrabarti get with these cases and how badly it reflects on them - it *looks* as though they’re more interested in the human “rights” of terrorists rather than the actual people who’re they’re targeting.

 

[grober]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/shami-chakrabarti-sajid-javid-death-penalty_uk_5b559c17e4b0de86f48e97e8/

Should this decision have been debated in Parliament? Or at least made public at an earlier time?

Why would parliament be debating the rights of non British Citizens?


I think it was debated briefly??
Foreign Fighters and the Death Penalty - Hansard

 

[m80]

As I see it it was the statement that UK won't be asking for assurances from the Us that there would be no death penalty if and when found guilty in the States if they are extradited there.

The point for me is that I'm glad that they won't be extradited here. That will attract loads of human rights attention, possible terrorist attention, Policing costs and the usual few millions for a trial and later appeals. Then we have to feed and accomodate the buggers.

Let the Us have 'em. I don't see that their judicial system is our affair, in this case at least..