Thoughts on BMW M5

[Adam230K]

PPP on the new bi turbo engines is a just a different software map, all engine components are the same.

PPP on the 6.3 V8 on the C class has lighter bits (nicked from the SLS), and is not only more powerful, but also significantly more responsive.

The above relayed to me by my personal tour guide during my recent AMG factory visit.

Both PPP cost about the same. The C class version is the much better deal.

Salesmen will blow alot of hot air to sell. I honestly don't think that there are any bits in common between a C class and the SLS apart from the engine. But the PPP on the 63 didn't include a differential for a while did it?

 

[tali]

I've actually heard a few people say the new RS6 is dull but then I question how can a car with that much power leave so many people feeling so flat about it?, must be something in it then,

It's a bit like getting your wicked way with a busty nymphomaniac supermodel - and then moaning about her lack of personality

 

[Oli]

It's a bit like getting your wicked way with a busty nymphomaniac supermodel - and then moaning about her lack of personality

True, I would like to see what an RS6 or a busty nympho supermodel are like when put through their paces, personality or not.

I found when I had a TVR other owners always used to go on about the 'soul' and character of the car, if soul and character is leaving you waiting for the AA 4 times in a month and only starting when it wants to they can keep it!.

 

[amgmaster]

Salesmen will blow alot of hot air to sell. I honestly don't think that there are any bits in common between a C class and the SLS apart from the engine. But the PPP on the 63 didn't include a differential for a while did it?

if you check you will find that the c63 ppp does share some parts from the sls like the forged pistons,lightweight crankshaft,conrods. you will actually find that most of the engine is completely different they even have a different name for the engine on the sls,m159,the c63 code is m156.the sls has over 120 parts and components that have been redesigned for the sls engine.
the ppp does'nt have a lsd as standard only as a option.

 

[TDE1]

Hey Palmball

Hi

Couldnt help but notice that you're in Loughborough.

About buy an E55 AMG from Burbage motors tomorrow. Came up yesterday and gave it a run. MB Loughborough will be giving it it's 50k service. Do you know the car / garage? Am not from the area so any warnings / tips would be very appreciated. Not had an MB before..

Cheers.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Just saw a brand new M5 estate. It looked rather dull to be honest.

 

[BenzedUP]

The new F10 M5 is far from dull... can't wait to see it on Top gear, no doubt it will give the E63 & CLS63 a good run.

Most realistic rendering F10 M5 - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

Albert Biermann, Head of M Engineering explains the new BMW M5 - YouTube

 

[bolide]

The OP hasn't said what he's looking for so it's difficult to come up with an idea. However, in true Internet Forum tradition, I won't let that stop me: Alpina B5

Nick Froome
the independent Mercedes Estate specialists

 

[John]

Yes, I think a lot depends on what the OP wants from the car.

A B5 is a softer version of the M5 - more of a grand tourer if you like.

If the E63 is anything like the E55K, the E55K is right in the middle of an M5 and B5 (due to adjustable suspension) - however, at the extremes, it is not quite either.

Personally, that suits me as I never drive the car to the limit anyway, and the novelty of a bone-shaking ride in your main car wears off once you get out of your teens and twenties.

 

[bolide]

Personally, that suits me as I never drive the car to the limit anyway, and the novelty of a bone-shaking ride in your main car wears off once you get out of your teens and twenties.

I agree completely. Ditto remaps for "More Power"

On the (usually excellent) Pistonheads forum there is a significant population that thinks buying a BMW is just a preamble to fitting an LSD, big exhaust and a remap. I think it's caused by a kind of virus - certainly it seems to be spreading!

Nick Froome
the independent Mercedes Estate specialists

 

[John]

On the (usually excellent) Pistonheads forum there is a significant population that thinks buying a BMW is just a preamble to fitting an LSD, big exhaust and a remap. I think it's caused by a kind of virus - certainly it seems to be spreading!

I must be going the other way then as I came from BMW to Mercedes.

I've also given consideration to all of those three (not big exhaust - just louder) since being on here and have reached the following conclusions:

LSD - my only reason for fitting this would be to get quicker start but I understand it makes no difference over the computer. I never take the car on the track which is where I understand it is most benefit - so would be a waste of time. The only time my computer kicks in is in the wet and if it weren't on, I would be lighting up the rears for no benefit.

Exhaust - mine has had the cats cut out but everything else (i.e. resonator) are standard and it provides a happy balance of hearing the V8 on full tilt at a nice level, without deafening me, maintaining an irritating drone or alerting the police to my sometimes heavy foot! I've decided against changing it...

Remap / Pulleys - seeing what Oli's experience is like but I think I like the idea more than the reality (and cost). As my very non-technical colleague said the other day, when I gave him a lift, "what, you've got 476BHP and that isn't enough?". Hmm.

There are times when I just cannot get the power down on some road surfaces in the wet so god knows what more power would be like to get down.

I think in hindsight and on balance with what I know now, and that is in part thanks to this forum, I am extremely happy with the car as it is and the only thing I am definitely going to do is give the old girl a good clean and polish next week.

 

[Adam230K]

LSD - my only reason for fitting this would be to get quicker start but I understand it makes no difference over the computer. I never take the car on the track which is where I understand it is most benefit - so would be a waste of time. The only time my computer kicks in is in the wet and if it weren't on, I would be lighting up the rears for no benefit.

Try flooring your car out of a corner (both with esp on and off), or doing an immediate 90 degree turn from standstill and you will know why you need an LSD.

 

[Dryce]

Try flooring your car out of a corner (both with esp on and off), or doing an immediate 90 degree turn from standstill and you will know why you need an LSD.

Is a LSD so significant these days given that the ESP/traction control stuff can brake individual wheels.

On my W211 it's quite noticable that on soft ground the ESP light will flash and the car pulls away without dramatics if it can get traction on only one side.

 

[John]

Try flooring your car out of a corner (both with esp on and off), or doing an immediate 90 degree turn from standstill and you will know why you need an LSD.

Neither of those things are justfying the not insubstantial price tag to me, but regardless of whether this car has an LSD or not, flooring it out of a corner either at speed or a standstill on full lock will break traction to the wheels meaning I would be spending my time oversteering and wheelspinning and wasting time while the car in front is getting away.

If you've not already driven an E55K, have a go and you'll soon discover the almost canyon-like difference between 440nm of torque vs. 700nm when it comes to getting the power down...

This car, with the ESP turned off but not in dyno mode, will light up both rears very easily even on block paving!

I would argue the traction control in this car is very good as you say Dryce, and in actual fact does a very good job of dealing with a loss of grip to a particular wheel or wheels meaning you can concentrate on drawing that mother in front - in.

 

[amg fan]

Too true about ESP on these models, i moved from a c32 where it would shut the power down to the point of being dangerous on wet roundabout pull outs to my much loved sl55 where it just trims your inputs. Im guessing the e55 having same engine would be the same and unless your in to drifting or real track work a slipper wont be too sorely missed. Have you considered lowering your air suspension for faster twisty stuff ?

 

[st4]

. Have you considered lowering your air suspension for faster twisty stuff ?

Having had the pleasure of a CLS 55 on fasty twisy roads, you don't need the lowering module.

On sport 2 the car was too firm and bounced too easily on our rutted roads, on comfort, it could be driven with more confidence and ultimately quicker as it wasn't getting deflected from its chosen path.

 

[C240Sport97]

Having had the pleasure of a CLS 55 on fasty twisy roads, you don't need the lowering module.

On sport 2 the car was too firm and bounced too easily on our rutted roads, on comfort, it could be driven with more confidence and ultimately quicker as it wasn't getting deflected from its chosen path.

Sport I drops the suspension 10mm
Sport II drops the suspension another 5mm

On very uneven and bumpy roads, traction is better on Comfort as the softer suspension gives better grip as the car sinks a bit more into the tyres.

I was sceptical at ***'s suggestion initially, but he was proved completely right.

 

[John]

I think ESP is probably the same system in the E then as it does just trim at what your doing when it sniffs slippage!

I've thought about lowering in the thought it would improve the handling but as said subsequently, I don't think it is the holy grail.

Bearing in mind our roads are shyte - harder suspension would suit the race track.

When I bought the car, it was set to Sport II.

I changed it to Comfort initially and then gradually as I got more used to the car, I changed it to Sport II again, which as said drops the car 15mm.

It is as firm-a-ride as I remember on some of the more harder-suspension cars I've driven - indeed it does pick up any detail on the road surface and you are bounced around at speed on choppy motorway surfaces but when smoother, it grips like a biatch.

However, running in Sport I is the best compromise it seems.

I found on Comfort it rolled too much and lost traction more quickly.

 

[Oli]

I don't find the E55 THAT quick in honesty but then after coming from bikes nothing is ever going to acceleration wise or the satisfying feeling of throwing a bike fast through a set of bends, however I love the car, although it doesn't give that bike feeling of speed it is pretty rapid for a 2 tonne saloon car,very smooth,seats 5 and is understated, and the idea of a remap and pulley does appeal mostly for wondering what an E class would really top out at on the Autobahn.

 

[John]

I've never ridden anything quicker than a TZR125 so to be - this is the quickest thing I've driven. All relative eh!

Funnily enough I followed a bike yesterday and the first time from the lights, he accelerated somewhat quickly but I stayed behind him.

At the second set of lights, he obviously knew and accelerated harder.

It did pull away from me so I can well imagine bikes are quite something, and although I wasn't surprised, I wanted to see how they stacked up in the real world.

As you say - comfy with 5 seats and very dry when the heavens open like they have done this week here...

I still want to know what your experience of 550BHP is like though as even if I probably wont be following, it still interests me!